Re: [atlarge-discuss] Killing ICANNAtLarge by division

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Chris and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,

  Instead of complaining Chris, why don't you actually do something about
it?
( More comments below Chris's )

NameCritic wrote:

> You know, if this wasn't so sad it would be hilarious. This whole archive
> should be made into a website titled "How not to start and run an
> organization"

  I disagree in part.  The problems that we are having are to be expected,
but have gone on far too long.  Democracy is not supposed to be easy
of black and white...

>
>
> This should be relabeled an anti-org if only that tld were avalable.
> atlarge.anti-org would be perfect.

  Interesting quip here Chris.  But so what?  And what are you doing about it?
As far as I can see  you are only complaining.

>
>
> I have been quiet and not posting recently and just reading and observing as
> members will tend to do for the most part. I would find it amazing that even
> 20 people are still actually reading this now, forget a 1000 members
> claimed.

  How do  you know how many are actually reading it?  I know I sure don't.
There could be very few as you contend, or many that are but have yet
to speak up or are just lurkers...

>
>
> As long as you elect to the panel the same people who haven't changed ICANN
> in other groups they belong to and been on panels for you will maintain the
> same exact results. Nothing.

  I agree with you here in part.  We are in danger of being captured.
But perhaps that is what the members want.  However we really do not
know if that is so because several panel members have resigned or
cannot be reached, in one particular instance.  Those that were
replaced should have been done so by the election of the members
of candidates instead of taking the old election results and taking the
next highest vote getter and placing them on the Panel.

>
>
> yes a website can be run by team effort. The suggestions otherwise are
> ridiculous. I opened a website and forum 22 days ago on another subject
> entirely. I already have 132 members who have posted some 1500 times to the
> board, a 22 page website to go along with it, advertisers already paying the
> freight, and manage a team of 12 Moderators for the various topical boards.

  Great!  Is it an At-large organization?  WHat is the Domain Name?

>
> They build portions of the website that relate to their expertise and I
> oversee and build the rest. All decisions get made in a once-a-week team
> meeting in an mirc chatroom. The idea that this started what, 6 months ago?
> and you have 1000 members you claim and still can't even operate a website,
> but you're gonna change the world. Yeah.

  Well you have a good point here!  However the behind the scenes
finagling from Joop and others created this problem.  But we have seen
this sort of goofing around before with the old and now long defunct
IDNO...

>
>
> I've seen offers of help like tutorials to run a website. There are people
> here like Sotiris that can do that without a manual and that are willing to
> spend the time to put up with the constant rambling and drivel produced by
> some list members. You have other people that have offered real help yet you
> can't accept it, because you lack the simple ability to make a decision.
>
> If you had drafted the mission statement and bylaws before proceeding to the
> website and outreach and shanghai and putting together wgs you wouldn't have
> half this confusion. I and several others have insisted that be done first
> yet we have been ignored by the panel and some of the members who need
> professional counseling desperately. You have ignored concerns including
> some way to determine who is actually posting to the list and that there is
> no duplication in membership.
>
> Yet you find time to argue about who will be webmaster, how many people will
> be working on the website, who is out to get who, who is sabotaging what,
> etc. The members of this list are sabotaging themselves. This is in self
> destruct mode at worst and at best on schedule to be a real organization in
> the year 2040.
>
> In a democracy you elect leaders that can get the job done, if they don't
> you are supposed to un-elect them next time. Not everything can be put to a
> vote. I put things to a vote at my site whenever possible and they vote
> right then. Other things I just have to decide and do. I can't be voted out
> of office though and this is a commercial venture, but the same applies. You
> have to elect people to do the job and let them do the job without your
> incessant whining on the list about them and every 5 posts asking to have
> this or that person removed. That is the fodder of babies who never want to
> go along with anything and argue for the sake of argument.
>
> This org is doomed if you do not do the following.
> 1. Elect who will be the original BoD
> They should
>       A. Finalize the Mission Statement
>       B. Draft the Bylaws.
>       C. Incorporate somewhere, anywhere, just give the damn thing some form
> of legality.
>
> 2. Members should vote prior to electing the BoD as to the term that the
> original BoD members will serve and set the terms for future BoD members and
> if they will be staggered elections rather than all at once. (recommended)
>
> 3. The BoD can take suggestions for topics that should be formed into
> working groups from the membership, then begin forming those wg's with rules
> as to how many people can join a wg, how many different wg's can be joined
> by one person, and set a list of posting rules for all the mailing lists.
>
> Then it may be possible this will lead to something. But I know now the
> people who are here simply to disrupt the list as their only agenda will now
> say all this is impossible or the wrong way to do it, etc. And they will
> post how their 1000's of fictional people they represent disagree, etc.
>
> I would truly like to see this lead somewhere, if not I gotta move on. I
> have no tolerance for work being done this slow nor do I have the time or
> the qualifications to counsel those who need professional help. I'm like
> joop. If I don't see you doing it, I will get around to doing it myself and
> even if I begin 3 months from now I'll be ahead of this group inside of
> thirty days.
>
> You have a few doers here who don't have a history of failing to change the
> way users are represented to ICANN. Let them do something and quit making
> the same tired mistakes every group has done so far. Please, a lot is riding
> on this. It is not your personal playground or a place for your grievences,
> nor is it a place where you speak for the membership of groups outside of
> this organization of individuals. I don't care what other groups you belong
> to, here you are one person representing one person. Very simple. You
> complicate this way beyond what is necessary. If the people who wrote the
> constitution were like this group we would still be worshipping a queen or a
> king vs what's left of the democracy they created.
>
> NameCritic
>
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



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