RE: [atlarge-discuss] Panel Mandate options

["Abel Wisman" <abel@able-towers.com>]

This is explanatory of Joop, HE decides, while he offered a service and
we didn't ask for a hijack!

HE decides nothing here without the approval of the panel or the full
membership INCLUDING the 220 he missed conveniently in his previous
straw poll.

I would appreciate you being a watch-dog Judith, but in the official
vote.

Abel


> -----Original Message-----
> From: espresso@e-scape.net [mailto:espresso@e-scape.net] 
> Sent: 28 February 2003 14:10
> To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Panel Mandate options
> 
> 
> At 16:44 +1300 2003/02/28, Joop Teernstra wrote:
> >...
> >However the members list is not the exact voters' list. 
> There are up to 
> >25 addresses that bounce, so these people cannot be considered 
> >"voters". There
> >is also the matter of the 169 "no messages please" members, 
> who I will
> >include only after they opt-in. They have 3 days to do this and one
> >day has
> >passed. So far 16 have opted in.
> >
> >This process will result in a final voters' list (for this 
> Poll!) that 
> >I will send to the watchers.
> >
> >You have expressed reservations about such an opt-in and if 
> Jan wants 
> >me to use the full list too, this would put me under 
> pressure to do as 
> >you wish.
> >Shared responsibility.  Walt is O.K. with the opt-in.
> >
> >But I must say that such a decision goes a  beyond mere watching.
> 
> This puzzles me a bit.
> 
> For one thing, within any group or organization I've ever
> dealt with, members are members and they have the *right* to vote.
> 
> Telling them when and where they can exercise that right 
> isn't spam --it's the *duty* of the organization to tell 
> them. Of course, a member can choose not to exercise the 
> right, but it's not for us to say that because they chose not 
> to get a mailing list or announcements of meetings of other 
> organizations taking place in other countries, they should be 
> disenfranchised.
> 
> "Bounces" are a different matter. An organization can only
> use the contact information it was given by the member. It 
> can't do anything about the members whose mailboxes are full 
> or changed ISPs without notifying it. Bylaws, like laws, 
> usually contain something to the effect that notices sent to 
> the last address provided by the person will be considered to 
> have been delivered. All we can really do about making sure 
> people tell us about address changes is to make sure there's 
> a reminder on the Web site and maybe a form for the purpose.
> 
> For another, I don't really understand why it puts pressure
> on you or goes beyond a scrutineer's role to suggest that
> all members should be sent a notice, while your personal 
> decision to send an opt-in message to the 169 on behalf of 
> the group (which wasn't asked to approve this decision) 
> should be seen as more legitimate or impartial.
> 
> I don't know whether you want me to be a watcher or not.
> Thus far, only Jeff has formally objected to my serving as
> one; Richard, Vittorio and Bruce seem to want me to. I
> rather hope others will come out and say what they want as
> soon as possible so I can know where I stand on this task.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Judyth
> 
> ##########################################################
> Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
> ##########################################################
> "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> "Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus." 
> ##########################################################
> 
> 
> 
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