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RE: [atlarge-discuss] "Common Sense" Re: MOTION! Panel Members! Speak Out NOW!
Excellect examination of our situation, Joey!
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
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| -----Original Message-----
| From: Joey Borda **star*walker** [mailto:starwalker@gay.com]
| Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:29 AM
| To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
| Subject: [atlarge-discuss] "Common Sense" Re: MOTION! Panel Members!
| Speak Out NOW!
|
|
| At 04:38 PM 3/31/2003 -0800, Bruce Young [see history below]
| called for a
| vote of the panel on an agreement reached with Jan Siren and Judyth
| Mermelstein based on their [Judyth and Jan's] stipulation
| calling for such
| a vote. -- Sensible
|
| Non-panel members comment. -- Sensible
|
| Non-panel members vote. -- Nonsense
|
| Former panel member asserts legitimacy of panel's actions while a member
| while at the same time decrying such legitimacy under the same
| rules since
| his resignation. -- Nonsense
|
| Constituted under the rules of the time and still extant, the panel that
| remains is THE panel. -- Sensible
|
| The panel is NOT the panel. -- Nonsense
|
| The panelists who remain are failing the organization and
| dooming it, and
| must abdicate their organizational responsibilities and rights in that
| capacity. -- Nonsense.
|
| The abdicating panelists advanced the purposes of the
| organization. -- Nonsense
|
| The abdicating panelists are to be thanked while the remaining panelists
| are to be excoriated. -- Nonsense
|
| The current panel is de facto or *politically* illegitimate. -- Nonsense
|
| /s/ Joey Bordo/Borda
|
| Tuesday, April 01, 2003 * 12:35 PM EST USA
|
| ==========
| HISTORY: "MOTION! Panel Members! Speak Out NOW!" thread history:
|
| At 04:38 PM 3/31/2003 -0800, bruce@barelyadequate.info wrote in
| "MOTION! Panel Members! Speak Out NOW!":
| >Judyth Mermelstein wrote:
| >
| >| On receipt of a Panel motion to that effect, I will very happily
| >| send all files I received from Vittorio to Jefsey, Bruce and
| >| Eric - in their identity as our remaining Panel - so that they
| >| can organize whatever election process and polling they
| >| *collectively agree* is appropriate.
| >
| >Jan Siren wrote
| >
| >| My owm intentions essentially parallel Judyth's with the
| >| following variation:
| >| As time allows, I have been performing some integrity checks
| >| against the
| >| files (and requesting additional information from the sources
| >| as needed) so
| >| that, when a disposition is eventually made, a level of
| >| certification will
| >| accompany them.
| >
| >
| >Based on the above statements, I make the following Panel Motion:
| >
| >1. Judyth and Jan should release the membership list to all
| existing Panel
| >members. As of this message, that would be myself, Jefsey
| Morfin and Eric
| >Dierker. Others who feel they should be included should also reply.
| >
| >[ ] Yes
| >
| >[ ] No
| >
| >[ ] Abstain
| >
| >
| >2. If the above motion passes, the panel should IMMEDIATELY begin
| >discussions to lock down timing and procedures for nominations from the
| >membership, dates for conducting the election, and
| systems/processes used to
| >conduct it.
| >
| >[ ] Yes
| >
| >[ ] No
| >
| >[ ] Abstain
| >
| >
| >Bruce Young
| >Portland, Oregon
| >bruce@barelyadequate.info
| >http://www.barelyadequate.info
|
| ==========
| At 08:00 PM 3/31/2003 -0600, Hugh Blair wrote:
| > > Based on the above statements, I make the following Panel Motion:
| > >
| > > 1. Judyth and Jan should release the membership list to all
| > > existing Panel members. As of this message, that would be myself,
| > > Jefsey Morfin and Eric Dierker. Others who feel they should
| be included
| > > should also reply.
| > >
| > > [ ] Yes
| > >
| > > [ X ] No
| > >
| > > [ ] Abstain
| > >
| > >
| > > 2. If the above motion passes, the panel should IMMEDIATELY begin
| > > discussions to lock down timing and procedures for
| nominations from the
| > > membership, dates for conducting the election, and systems/processes
| > > used to conduct it.
| > >
| > > [ ] Yes
| > >
| > > [ X ] No
| > >
| > > [ ] Abstain
| >
| >What panel? There is only a _dead_ panel. Put this motion to the
| >membership if you want, but to have your clique vote for themselves,
| >that's just wrong. Wanted or not, here's my vote.
| >
| >Hugh
|
| ==========
| At 08:29 PM 3/31/2003 -0800, bruce@barelyadequate.info wrote:
| >For the record, sice Jefsey seconded it. Want to chime in there, Eric?!
| >
| >Bruce Young
| >Portland, Oregon USA
| >bruce@barelyadequate.info
| >http://www.barelyadequate.info
|
| ==========
| At 08:49 PM 4/1/2003 +1200, DPF wrote:
| >On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:38:09 -0800, <bruce@barelyadequate.info> wrote:
| >
| > >1. Judyth and Jan should release the membership list to all
| existing Panel
| > >members. As of this message, that would be myself, Jefsey
| Morfin and Eric
| > >Dierker. Others who feel they should be included should also reply.
| > >
| > >[ ] Yes
| > >
| > >[X ] No
| > >
| > >[ ] Abstain
| >
| >I don't accept that if 90% of a panel resigns that the person who came
| >20th (basically bottom) in an election should become a panel member
| >and with the remaining two members have any authority. The panel is
| >inquorate by any normal definition of being less than half or even
| >quarter of its membership.
| >
| >The last legitimate elected officer gave the lists to two watchdogs to
| >run the next election. An online informal poll of list members
| >confirmed that they should use that list to run an election.
| >
| >Frankly I'm staggered that the two remaining panelists should spend so
| >much time demanding their rights when they are part of the panel that
| >so badly failed icannatlarge.org and has probably doomed it. With all
| >respect if I were them I'd be standing aside.
| >
| >DPF
| >--
| >E-mail: david@farrar.com
| >ICQ: 29964527
| >MSN: dpf666@hotmail.com
|
| ==========
| At 11:42 AM 4/1/2003 +0200, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
| >On Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:38:09 -0800, you wrote:
| >
| > >Based on the above statements, I make the following Panel Motion:
| >
| >Bruce, I once again stress that the last motion the panel approved
| >under my chairmanship was to have a new election as soon as possible.
| >It was approved with your support and with Jefsey's support, so I
| >really can't understand why we can't simply have new elections and
| >implement that motion. You may debate about whether the current panel
| >is legally legitimate or not - you may debate endlessly, in fact,
| >since we don't have rules yet - but there's no reasonable doubt about
| >the fact that this panel is *politically* illegitimate.
| >--
| >vb. [Vittorio Bertola - vb [at] bertola.eu.org]<---
| >-------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/ <-----------------------
|
| ==========
| At 04:00 AM 4/1/2003 -0800, eric@hi-tek.com wrote:
| >Vittorio,
| >
| >Are you trying to destroy any forward progress so that you will
| do better
| >in your new position?
| >
| >e
|
| ==========
| At 04:33 AM 4/1/2003 -0800, Jeff Williams wrote:
| >Vittorio and all fellow members,
| >
| > For a pleasant change I must agree with Vittorio here. The Ex-Panel
| >is no longer legitimate and hasn't been for some time. New Elections
| >are required. An election process that preserves the privacy of the
| >members that shall decide to vote is required.
|
| #####
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