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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Democracies Re: [atlarge-discuss] Risks and digitalcertificates (was Re: [atlarge-discuss]Election Preparation)




espresso@e-scape.net schrieb:
> 
> At 08:23 +0200 2003/04/28, Holger Steiner wrote:
> >espresso@e-scape.net schrieb:
> >>
> >[snip]
> >> Not everyone shares your confidence that bombardment and
> >> installation of puppet regimes is the best way to bring
> >> democracy to undemocratic nations. (I can't think of a
> >> single country where that worked in the past.)
> >
> >Germany.
> 
> Thanks, Holger. I should have phrased that remark of mine
> more carefully.

I thought so...
;-)

 
> Germany was an exception to what I said but it had actually
> been a democracy (of sorts) before Hitler de-democratized it,
> so the Allies were merely reversing a "regime change". The
> same is more-or-less true of Italy. Actually, Japan is the
> one place where there was a far more democratic system
> after the war than before.

The republic of weimar in germany before the ascend to power by the
Nazis was NOT that much of a democracy.
Most germans were against this democracy, they were fighting from the
far left and the far right against "the system".

 
> However, the various bombardments and invasions of places
> like Afghanistan don't tend to have that result. The
> British, the Russians and the Americans tried in their
> various ways to take control and set a different future
> course for the county but as soon as the occupations end
> and the puppets are on their own, things tend to revert
> to what was there before.

So we need a longer occupation.
Re-educate the population.

 
> Most puppet regimes are actually installed and maintained
> to *prevent* the kind of government the people of a
> particular country want. Whether we're talking about the
> countries the Soviet Union conquered or the ones the U.S.
> invaded,

Germany for example...
;-)


> or go back further to the colonies of Britain,
> France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal or the Netherlands.

East-Timor?


> I'm not saying whatever is demolished in a conquest is
> necessarily good or democratic -- just that you don't
> normally make a country democratic by bombing it to
> rubble and then occupying it to run it yourself or
> with hand-picked nationals of the country in question.

Bombing it to rubble?

Carpet bombing is out.

No, really. It is much to expensive und usually not necessary.

[snip] 

At least I have the hope, that, whatever comes in Afghanistan and Iraq,
is not WORSE than what they had before, i.e. bloody dictatorships.



optimistic greetings
Holger

-- 
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Holger Steiner
Programmer & Consultant
Synchron GmbH
h.steiner@synchron-is.de
http://www.synchron-is.de
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intentions...")</script>
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