RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First Re: [atlarge-discuss]Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement

[Joanna Lane <jo-uk@rcn.com>]

I don't see any disagreement of principle here, only of working methods. Far
be it for me to put words into anybody's mouth, least of all Judith's, but I
think she's saying this election is about voting for a person's belief
system, not their physical location.

I'm not one for analogies...but off the top of my head...if John Walker were
the only US citizen standing for election against a slate of Afghan
candidates, would you vote for him on the basis of geographical diversity?

Regards,
Joanna

> -----Original Message-----
> From: j.oppenheimer@att.net [mailto:j.oppenheimer@att.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:50 PM
> To: Erick Iriarte Ahon
> Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First Re: [atlarge-discuss]
> Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement
>
>
> > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can
> do it more than a
> > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with
> you.
> >
>
> Look, to me this small group is a means to an end - that
> end being a democratic, representative global internet
> governance body (ICANN being its current placeholder),
> with full At Large voting and adequate board seats on
> that governance body.
>
> The make-up of this body, the one for which we're
> holding elections right now, should to my mind be those
> persons who can get us to the larger goal above so that
> we can have globally diverse representation on the board
> that ultmately matters - the global internet governance
> board.
>
> That's all I'm saying.  (If anyone understands my point
> and can explain it better, feel free to step in here.)
>
> J
>
> --
> Judith Oppenheimer
> http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> http://WhoSells800.com
> 212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > I'm try to understand you.
> >
> > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can do it more than a
> > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with you.
> >
> > I don't want to sabotage anything, i want a real-representative group.
> > Democracy is the possibility of anyone to say anything, and
> participate in
> > every space of discuss, if you put only a group, for
> "eficience", this is
> > not a representative group, this not a democratic group.
> >
> > Never i said you have a "conspiracy theory", and i'm not Fox Mulder to
> > search X-Files, i'm try to defend my point of view, i believe in a
> > real-representative-global process. And believe in persons
> around the world
> > that work hard for the Internet in each country all the time.
> >
> > Don't close your mind only for the thing that you know, open
> your mind to
> > the world.
> >
> > Erick Iriarte Ahon from Latin America!! (a very interesting
> place in this
> > world!!)
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:15 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > >Representation and accountability - At Large voting, and
> > >adequate seats on the Board - Election, not Selection --
> > >at the ICANN/whomever Global Internet Governance level --
> > >  is what it will take to obtain the goals of different
> > >regions and peoples.
> > >
> > >So if First Things First is "simplistic" then so be it.
> > >
> > >I do wonder if some peoples' interest in "geographic
> > >diversity" in this forum at this point and time, is a
> > >way of sabotaging this board, ie creating a potentially
> > >less effective board in the name of political
> > >correctness.  Sounds so good and works so well (for
> > >those who'd prefer this group fail.)
> > >
> > >Erick, fyi, I don't mean you.
> > >
> > >I'm not a conspiracy theorist.  I'm not known for
> > >mincing my words.  Nor am I known for erroneous
> > >speculation or predictions.
> > >
> > >In fact, sad to say I have a very good track record in
> > >these matters (sad because I'd prefer that what goes on,
> > >didn't.)
> > >
> > >J
> > >
> > >--
> > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > Excuse-me but you are very wrong in your comment.
> > > >
> > > > in special with this:
> > > >
> > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > >my vote.
> > > >
> > > > If you think only US people have the opportunity to defend
> the Internet,
> > > > you have a little problem. And not only the "good lobby", make
> > > "expertise",
> > > > each person from anothers region work-hard for the Internet in their
> > > > countries and regions.
> > > >
> > > > So, I defend Vittorio Bertola participation, and i know
> some names of your
> > > > list, dear Judith, and i hope James love , Milton Muller , Michael
> > > > Froomklin, and anothers think in a global internet, not
> only for US people.
> > > >
> > > > Please think the Internet, is very different in each
> region, in some place
> > > > like Peru close the digital divide, in anothers is usseful
> for connect far
> > > > regions; and each experience is good and necessary to
> understand that this
> > > > is a global process.
> > > >
> > > > Don't make this a US place, make a Global Place, the
> internet is for all,
> > > > not only for you.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe this is a "strong" and don't polite email, but please
> think in a
> > > > global internet.
> > > >
> > > > Y creo que quedo bastante claro, y para aquellos que puedan
> entender el
> > > > espaņol, seņores.. aqui no estamos para pelearnos por quien
> es mejor en su
> > > > pais, aqui estamos peleando por defender un Internet en el
> cual todos
> > > > creemos, y decir que "muestren" a alguien idoneo en otras
> regiones, es
> > > > pensar fuera de sitio, es desconocer el esfuerzo de mucha
> gente, noble,
> > > > buena, trabajadora, experta, y eso no es justo para nadie,
> todo ser humano
> > > > es igual a otro, no importa de donde venga, y no nos olvidemos que
> > > > globalizar no es comer todos Mcdonalds, sino conocer y
> respetar al otro en
> > > > su individualidad compartiendo un mismo planeta.
> > > >
> > > > Erick Iriarte Ahon
> > > > Latinoamericann
> > > > http://latinoamericann.derecho.org.ar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 02:14 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > > > >Vittorio, I don't want to be argumentative with you and
> > > > >I recognize your sincerity and the time and effort
> > > > >you've invested here, but it is misleading to say that
> > > > >any measure of At Large has been retained by ICANN.
> > > > >
> > > > >At Large is a voting body with board seats.  Remove the
> > > > >votes and board seats, and you remove At Large.  Which
> > > > >is exactly what ICANN has done.
> > > > >
> > > > >As for geographic diversity, I'll take all the Jamie
> > > > >Loves, Ted Byfields, Karl Auerbachs, Michael Froomkins
> > > > >and Milt Muellers I can get, no matter their locations,
> > > > >because they have the integrity, desire, **history and
> > > > >expertise** to push ICANN (or whatever replaces it)
> > > > >toward the goal of democratic geographic representation.
> > > > >
> > > > >The same cannot be said of well-meaning but
> > > > >inexperienced persons merely because they come from
> > > > >diverse areas of the world.
> > > > >
> > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > >my vote.
> > > > >
> > > > >But anything less is counterproductive.
> > > > >
> > > > >J
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > > > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > > > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > > > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > > > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > > > MY CANDIDATION STATEMENT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am an Engineer, 27, and live in Turin, Italy; I am an
> active At
> > > > > > Large member since 2000, and I am presently the Chairman of
> > > > > > icannatlarge.com. I have been spending most of my time
> in the last
> > > > > > months actively working for our organization and
> defending our cause
> > > > > > in ICANN, submitting documents and proposals, and
> flying on my own
> > > > > > money to Bucharest, to talk with Board members and save
> some space,
> > > > > > even if tiny, for the At Large in ICANN - in which we succeeded.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe that the Internet is a vital resource for the
> whole world;
> > > > > > that its administration must be under the control of the global
> > > > > > public; and that ICANN has been deliberately trying, in the last
> > > > > > years, to put itself out of such control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This organization has to practically work to gain strength and
> > > > > > credibility, so that its voice can get stronger and
> stronger. We have
> > > > > > to get help and pressure on ICANN to defend the
> original plans for At
> > > > > > Large elections of the Board. However, it is very
> likely that ICANN
> > > > > > will survive and preserve its power. This is why we must keep a
> > > > > > dialogue open with all ICANN participants and get
> support from them
> > > > > > too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am worried by the excessive stress that many candidates put on
> > > > > > interactions with the US Government, and by the high number of
> > > > > > candidates from the US. This organization needs members
> and leaders
> > > > > > from all the world; it must defend the diversity and
> the independence
> > > > > > of the Internet, not call for governmental involvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is still much to do, and we don't have many
> resources. We have
> > > > > > to follow the thin line of practical compromises that
> stands between
> > > > > > the sterile dream of ICANN's sudden death, and
> submission to ICANN's
> > > > > > bad plans. It's the hardest way, but the only one that
> is guaranteed
> > > > > > to produce results in the long term.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So... I think that no one has spent more time and
> energy than me for
> > > > > > this organization, and I really want to continue working and
> > > > > > contributing my skills. This is why, I think, I deserve
> your vote
> > > > > > again. Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MORE INFORMATION
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My statement for the first elections of
> icannatlarge.com (with more
> > > > > > information on myself and my ideas)
> > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=455#455
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My submissions to ICANN's Reform Committee:
> > > > > > (1)
> > > > > > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/general/pdf00011.pdf
> > > > > > (2)
> > > > > > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/structure/pdf00000.pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My rough proposals for the ALAC
> > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00408.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Bylaws proposals for icannatlarge.com
> > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The atlarge-panel list (to review my acts as current
> panel member)
> > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My proposal for At Large organization at Nov 2000 ICANN meeting
> > > > > > http://www.icannmembers.org/Props/prop-7.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My candidation statement for year 2000 At Large elections
> > > > > > http://icann.bertola.eu.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You could also browse through my postings on the atlarge-discuss
> > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/), DNSO GA
> > > > > > (http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html) and icann-europe
> > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/icann-europe/) lists
> (unfortunately no per-author
> > > > > > search is available).
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a]
> > > bertola.eu.org]<------
> > > > > > ----------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/
> > > <--------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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