Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: WG-DNS name protection

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Sotitris, Stepehn and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,

Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:

> Stephen Waters wrote:
>
> > 2 things:
> >
> > 1. I have to say I agree with David that I think you're too prone to
> > flaming to be a content submitter to the website *qua* webmaster.

  This is an exaggeration Stephen, IMHO.

  As Sotiris clearly has stated, shown in the past (See IDNO Archives
for further evidence), and I believe has also shown on this forum as
well, that he does not flame, but he is direct, and to the point,
without equivocation or worrying about offending anyone.  I find
such to be honest and aboveboard, not "Flaming"...  I suppose
it is a matter of your level of paranoia, however...

>
>
> I consider it "shaming" as opposed to "flaming", anyway, here in Canada we have a
> saying:  'Where there's smoke there's fire...'  Stephen, some of us have been at this
> grind (i.e. achieving user representation in ICANN) for several years now.  Many of us
> have pretty much had it with some of the pathological committee sitting personalities
> who stand for election, get elected, and then do NOTHING but repeat themselves
> endlessly or make token commitments while obstructing any meaningful or substantive
> work from getting done.  If I speak up and criticize a Panel Member, it is my right as
> a member to do so, and I do so because I firmly believe they are doing something wrong
> (or nothing at all, which is even worse!).  OTOH, if I were to be webmaster for this
> organization (*which currently I am not*) then that would entail a different
> comportment with respect to what content is incorporated on the site, and my attitude
> to the work *qua* work would most certainly be of the highest professional standards.
> What I say as a member and what I'd do as a webmaster are two divergent scenarios,
> please dn't confuse the two.  One cannot base one's opinion of my performance of the
> latter based on my activities as the former, it would be a false inference.  The simple
> fact is that I want to see the work get done, and when it's not being done I will shame
> those who stepped forward promising to do the job.  That is my right as a member and
> nobody can circumscribe my personal right to express myself as a member. But, as
> webmaster, I would certainly avoid using such a position as a platform for my own
> individual views as I would not be acting responsibly nor professionally if I were to
> do so. Let me also state, for the record, that I agree with Jeff Williams that the term
> "diplomacy" is often a mask for the term "bullshit".  When it comes to my right as a
> member to express myself on an individual basis, pardon me, but I will not shovel shit.
>
> >
> > However, as an individual that's fine, of course.
> >
> > 2. The Slashcode-ish look is ok. You really need to change those <td
> > bgcolor="#ffffff"> backgrounds to delineate between various content
> > spaces, though.
>
> That is not a problem.  The site I sent you all to look at is a mock-up of a possible
> layout, not a finished product.
>
> > Personally, I prefer CSS to bgcolor declarations (easier
> > on the file downloads, too...) but users of ancient browsers may need
> > this deprecated crutch.
>
> We're trying to be inclusive here Stephen, I've been to public libraries here in
> Toronto that are still running older browsers that do not render CSS correctly.  I've
> even left out unecessary graphics for those on slow connections...  Anyway, it was an
> example of what can be done, not what must be done.  But, has anyone else offered up
> another option?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sotiris Sotiropoulos
>
> >
> >
> > -s
> >
> > On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 17:06, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> > > http://www.worldatlarge.org/index.php
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > >
> > > Hans Klein wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sotiris,
> > > >
> > > > If you have a mock-up web site, I am sure we would all be eager to see it.
> > > >
> > > > Can you post the URL?
> > > >
> > > > Hans
> > > >
> > > > At 02:15 PM 10/16/2002 -0400, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> > > > >DannyYounger@cs.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jamie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before you begin questioning the relationship between established user
> > > > > > organizations and ICANN, you might want to ask if your own group,
> > > > > without any
> > > > > > organizational documents, without even a mission statement, bylaws or
> > > > > > charter, even qualifies as an organization suitable for recognition as an
> > > > > > at-large structure.
> > > > >
> > > > >Perhaps a dis-organization, then?  Especially of late.
> > > > >
> > > > >Before I received this email from Danny, I was about to post a link to the
> > > > >list
> > > > >directing all of you to a mock-up web site which Hans requested I put together
> > > > >(even though I had ALREADY set up the PHPNuke site for all of you to view a
> > > > >couple months ago!  Remember that ladies and gentlemen?!?  Check the
> > > > >archives, if
> > > > >you like...).  However, having read Danny's email I stopped myself and
> > > > >decided to
> > > > >visit the Panel's closed list archive for a look at how our leaders are going
> > > > >about the business of this "organization".  Much to my surprise, I saw a
> > > > >motion
> > > > >from Jamie Love (seconded by Hans Klein) to make Brett Faussett the new
> > > > >webmaster.  No offense against Brett, but where's he been for the last couple
> > > > >months? I didn't hear him volunteering his services when a new webmaster was
> > > > >being sought.  Or, ( as is probably the case) is this some kind of a
> > > > >compromise
> > > > >selection to placate Joop?  In any case, if this is the direction the Panel
> > > > >wishes to take, then I wish them all the power in the world.  However, I
> > > > >cannot
> > > > >for a moment understand why the WG-Web members (of which I am one) were not
> > > > >consulted?
> > > > >
> > > > > > As per the Committee on ICANN Evolution and Reform's Second Interim
> > > > > > Implementation Report:  "We agree that individual at large entities should
> > > > > > meet some "accreditation" standard, and we find the criteria and standards
> > > > > > recommended by the Assistance Group to be an attractive list."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This "list" stipulates structured, self-sustaining entities that engage in
> > > > > > outreach and post current information about the organization's aims,
> > > > > > structure, constituents, working mechanisms, and current leadership.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.  Your aims are not posted
> > > > >
> > > > >To date I submitted TWO different versions of Mission Statements for this
> > > > >organization (both several months ago) which elicited next to no comments, and
> > > > >yet there is still no substantive work produced by the 'power elite' among
> > > > >us on
> > > > >this issue.  Shameful.  This and the webmaster issue noted above are enough to
> > > > >put off persons (such as myself) who are willing to contribute
> > > > >substantively...
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.  You have no organizational structure
> > > > >
> > > > >Oh, but we do... dis-organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3.  You are not self-sustaining
> > > > >
> > > > >If bombast and self-important bluster were the fuel of the day, I'd say we're
> > > > >self-perpetuating rather than self-sustaining.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4.  You have no established working mechanisms or procedures for the
> > > > > general
> > > > > > membership
> > > > >
> > > > >Why bother, that would detract from the nominal importance of our Panel
> > > > >Members...  BTW, Danny, have you perhaps heard anything from that champion
> > > > >of the
> > > > >common netizens, Satyajit Gupta?  I wonder if the other Panel Members
> > > > >approve of
> > > > >his delinquency?  If not, then why are there no steps being taken to
> > > > >replace him?
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 5.  You can't document any organizational outreach activities
> > > > >
> > > > >Well, you might have something there.  Perhaps Richard Henderson can fill
> > > > >us in
> > > > >on the progress towards the 100, 000 membership base he promised.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After you get your own house in order, then feel free to question the
> > > > > > relationship of ISOC chapters to ICANN -- they at least meet the minimum
> > > > > > criteria expected for an at-large structure.
> > > > >
> > > > >Except for the fact that they are now a Registry operator, which puts them
> > > > >in the
> > > > >gTLD constituency...
> > > > >
> > > > >Seriously Disappointed,
> > > > >
> > > > >Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > > > >
> > > > >
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



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