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RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: WG-DNS name protection
Stephen Waters wrote:
| Argue the point and get on with it. Ad hominem adds nothing.
Here, Here! :)
| I imagine Panel members of a voluntary organization daily
| subject to public criticism in the midst of their personal workload and
| familial responsibilities will respond to ad hominem even less.
I try to read through the flame to understand the heat causing it, but I
agree it would be easier, if we all were less radicalized by our long
exposure with ICANN and their back-stabbing ways. We might be less willing
then to see a potential conspirator behind every post.
| You don't really believe some Panel members have been absent out of
| laze, do you?
I for one was off line most of the time since Friday, and just got back on
tonight. AT&T says it was a bad cable amplifier between them and me. But I
made a point of "stacking up" my replies in my outbox in case it came back
up.
And routinely my "real life" is challenging enough as it stands. But since
being elevated to the panel I have made a point of keeping up on panel
business daily. And now thgat WG-OUTREACH is up and running, I consider its
conversations my second priority, and have Outlook pulling them out
separately as well. So don't be surprized if I still get behind on the
general conversations this forum from time to time.
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
byoung651@attbi.com
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
| I, for one, do not support or elect people based on negative
| campaigning. I imagine Panel members of a voluntary organization daily
| subject to public criticism in the midst of their personal workload and
| familial responsibilities will respond to ad hominem even less. I would
| certainly be reluctant to hire a person for a job if they flamed me in
| public about something beyond my control. I would think to myself "Does
| not play well with others. Cannot be trusted to do the job right."
|
| You don't really believe some Panel members have been absent out of
| laze, do you? While I agree they should excuse themselves or designate a
| proxy, unfortunately we're in sort of a Catch-22 here with lacking
| procedures, participation guidelines, etc. We need them to do something
| but they're in a bind and unable to do what we need, and we have no
| procedure yet for overruling that situation.
|
| . Does yelling about it do anything at all to solve the Catch-22?
| . Does sending repeated mails to the list regarding Gupta's absence make
| him any more likely to show up?
| . Does your manner make the Panel more or less likely to think you'd use
| the website as a bully pulpit?
|
|
|
| > > However, as an individual that's fine, of course.
| > >
| > > 2. The Slashcode-ish look is ok. You really need to change those <td
| > > bgcolor="#ffffff"> backgrounds to delineate between various content
| > > spaces, though.
| >
| > That is not a problem. The site I sent you all to look at is
| a mock-up of a possible
| > layout, not a finished product.
| >
| > > Personally, I prefer CSS to bgcolor declarations (easier
| > > on the file downloads, too...) but users of ancient browsers may need
| > > this deprecated crutch.
| >
| > We're trying to be inclusive here Stephen, I've been to public
| libraries here in
| > Toronto that are still running older browsers that do not
| render CSS correctly. I've
| > even left out unecessary graphics for those on slow
| connections... Anyway, it was an
| > example of what can be done, not what must be done. But, has
| anyone else offered up
| > another option?
|
|
| No one has, as far as I know. I was just offering constructive
| criticism.
|
| $0.02USD
| -s
|
| > > On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 17:06, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
| > > > http://www.worldatlarge.org/index.php
| > > >
| > > > Sincerely,
| > > >
| > > > Sotiris Sotiropoulos
| > > >
| > > > Hans Klein wrote:
| > > >
| > > > > Sotiris,
| > > > >
| > > > > If you have a mock-up web site, I am sure we would all
| be eager to see it.
| > > > >
| > > > > Can you post the URL?
| > > > >
| > > > > Hans
| > > > >
| > > > > At 02:15 PM 10/16/2002 -0400, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
| > > > > >DannyYounger@cs.com wrote:
| > > > > >
| > > > > > > Jamie,
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > Before you begin questioning the relationship
| between established user
| > > > > > > organizations and ICANN, you might want to ask if
| your own group,
| > > > > > without any
| > > > > > > organizational documents, without even a mission
| statement, bylaws or
| > > > > > > charter, even qualifies as an organization suitable
| for recognition as an
| > > > > > > at-large structure.
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Perhaps a dis-organization, then? Especially of late.
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Before I received this email from Danny, I was about to
| post a link to the
| > > > > >list
| > > > > >directing all of you to a mock-up web site which Hans
| requested I put together
| > > > > >(even though I had ALREADY set up the PHPNuke site for
| all of you to view a
| > > > > >couple months ago! Remember that ladies and
| gentlemen?!? Check the
| > > > > >archives, if
| > > > > >you like...). However, having read Danny's email I
| stopped myself and
| > > > > >decided to
| > > > > >visit the Panel's closed list archive for a look at how
| our leaders are going
| > > > > >about the business of this "organization". Much to my
| surprise, I saw a
| > > > > >motion
| > > > > >from Jamie Love (seconded by Hans Klein) to make Brett
| Faussett the new
| > > > > >webmaster. No offense against Brett, but where's he
| been for the last couple
| > > > > >months? I didn't hear him volunteering his services
| when a new webmaster was
| > > > > >being sought. Or, ( as is probably the case) is this
| some kind of a
| > > > > >compromise
| > > > > >selection to placate Joop? In any case, if this is the
| direction the Panel
| > > > > >wishes to take, then I wish them all the power in the
| world. However, I
| > > > > >cannot
| > > > > >for a moment understand why the WG-Web members (of
| which I am one) were not
| > > > > >consulted?
| > > > > >
| > > > > > > As per the Committee on ICANN Evolution and Reform's
| Second Interim
| > > > > > > Implementation Report: "We agree that individual at
| large entities should
| > > > > > > meet some "accreditation" standard, and we find the
| criteria and standards
| > > > > > > recommended by the Assistance Group to be an
| attractive list."
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > This "list" stipulates structured, self-sustaining
| entities that engage in
| > > > > > > outreach and post current information about the
| organization's aims,
| > > > > > > structure, constituents, working mechanisms, and
| current leadership.
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > 1. Your aims are not posted
| > > > > >
| > > > > >To date I submitted TWO different versions of Mission
| Statements for this
| > > > > >organization (both several months ago) which elicited
| next to no comments, and
| > > > > >yet there is still no substantive work produced by the
| 'power elite' among
| > > > > >us on
| > > > > >this issue. Shameful. This and the webmaster issue
| noted above are enough to
| > > > > >put off persons (such as myself) who are willing to contribute
| > > > > >substantively...
| > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > 2. You have no organizational structure
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Oh, but we do... dis-organization.
| > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > 3. You are not self-sustaining
| > > > > >
| > > > > >If bombast and self-important bluster were the fuel of
| the day, I'd say we're
| > > > > >self-perpetuating rather than self-sustaining.
| > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > 4. You have no established working mechanisms or
| procedures for the
| > > > > > general
| > > > > > > membership
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Why bother, that would detract from the nominal
| importance of our Panel
| > > > > >Members... BTW, Danny, have you perhaps heard anything
| from that champion
| > > > > >of the
| > > > > >common netizens, Satyajit Gupta? I wonder if the other
| Panel Members
| > > > > >approve of
| > > > > >his delinquency? If not, then why are there no steps
| being taken to
| > > > > >replace him?
| > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > 5. You can't document any organizational outreach activities
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Well, you might have something there. Perhaps Richard
| Henderson can fill
| > > > > >us in
| > > > > >on the progress towards the 100, 000 membership base he
| promised.
| > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > >
| > > > > > > After you get your own house in order, then feel
| free to question the
| > > > > > > relationship of ISOC chapters to ICANN -- they at
| least meet the minimum
| > > > > > > criteria expected for an at-large structure.
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Except for the fact that they are now a Registry
| operator, which puts them
| > > > > >in the
| > > > > >gTLD constituency...
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Seriously Disappointed,
| > > > > >
| > > > > >Sotiris Sotiropoulos
| > > > > >
| > > > > >
| > > > >
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