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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
Richard and all stakeholders or interested parties and members,
As of yesterday Richard, if you have been payuing attention,
http://www.icannatlarge.org/ which doesn't resolve AGAIN,
was first available for registration, and now is Registered to
Hans Kline. Hence, Marc's "Donation" which as we all know
was from the fact that when Jefsey was the registrant, had
it's Name servers misconfigured. Hardly a big favor to
this organization given the ongoing problems with
http://www.icannatlarge.org/
For reference see:
http://www.enom.com/domains/WhoIs.asp?DomainName=ICANNATLARGE.ORG&submit.x=46&submit.y=20
Now take a look at http://www.atlarge.org/ is still registered to Marc
Schniders. See Whois:
Registrant:
Venster
Laan van Vollenhove 1733
Zeist, 3706 GH
NL
Domain Name: ATLARGE.ORG
Administrative Contact:
Schneiders, Marc marc@schneiders.org
Laan van Vollenhove 1733
Zeist, 3706 GH
NL
31 30 6992825
Technical Contact:
Schneiders, Marc domadmin@venster.nl
Treublaan 14
Zeist, Utrecht 3705 CZ
NL
+31 30 6992825
Fax: +31 30 6990151
Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 10-May-2002.
Record expires on 10-May-2003.
Record Created on 10-May-2002.
Domain servers in listed order:
REMEMBER.IFWP.ORG 213.196.2.96
FUCHSIA.BIJT.NET 213.84.166.231
=============== End of Whois data ==========
So Richard I fail yet to see that this DN is yet in our control,
unless we have a letter from Marc stating such or the DN Registrant
of record is changed appropriately.
In addition http://www.atlarge.org if you pull it up, in no
way yet in anyway indicates that it is this organizations DN or
for use by this organization. As by the way the Whois record
for http://www.atlarge.org also shows as well...
Hence Richard, I fail to see any substantive data that bares
out your contention here yet. Perhaps you could provide some?
Hence unless or until we do see something a bit more substantive
the bottoms-up building of this organization is currently stalled,
as Jamie rightly indicated earlier and on the NCDNHC list,
see: http://www.icann-ncc.org/pipermail/discuss/2002-October/003001.html
Richard Henderson wrote:
> Once again, Marc Schneiders has displayed brilliant generosity and placed
> trust in our organisation (a trust which we must work hard to justify and
> fulfil). Marc has already donated www.icannatlarge.org to the group (which
> has been chosen by vote as the name of the group).
>
> Now Marc is also giving us www.atlarge.org which is a key domain name, in
> that it publicly mirrors and challenges ICANN's phoney at large which they
> promote at www.at-large.org
>
> My advice to the group is to retain the organisation name "IcannatLarge.org"
> (with or without the .org) but to make that domain name and all our sites
> resolve to www.atlarge.org (as Jefsey has suggested so convincingly all
> along).
>
> This will enable us to focus on who we truly set out to be : the true AT
> LARGE, the at large org which tries to speak for ordinary internet users all
> round the world. With this domain name www.atlarge.org we have an umbrella
> which (if we are wise) we will use to draw in many and varied at-large
> groups and initiatives from all round the world. While we will continue to
> build our ICANN-inheritance identity as the inheritor of ICANN's at large,
> we need to now look more broadly to our shared coalition with user-groups
> all round the world, and we would be mad to be exclusive.
>
> The site at www.atlarge.org is inspired intuition, offering subdomains for
> each and every at large group and organisation around the world, to share
> and participate under the www.atlarge umbrella - and offers us the chance to
> publicly set up camp beyond Icann, as an official opposition movement to
> Icann for all the world to see. By using subdomains, we can now have a true
> bottom-up network developing : www.france.atlarge.org and
> www.uk.atlarge.org and www.argentine.atlarge.org and
> www.southafrica.atlarge.org and www.outreach.atlarge.org and
> www.transfers.atlarge.org and www.newtlds.atlarge.org and
> www.italia.atlarge.org and www.nz.atlarge.org and www.gay.atlarge.org
> and www.digitaldivide.atlarge.org and so on and so on...
>
> We can, indeed, even invite all the members of Denise Michel's "pretend"
> Atlarge committee to join our own At Large which has the superiority of
> actually having 1000 members already in it, whereas Denise has, basically,
> her and Esther! So we should not be hesitant to create our "mirror"
> organisation. They can't possibly challenge our use of "at large" when we
> can demonstrate that our members were the actual at large all along, and
> besides, imagine the press publicity if she tried! We need to be very bold
> at this juncture and insist that we - the users of the world - the people
> Icann dispossessed by coup - are the true At Large, gathering under the
> "AtLarge" domain name at the "AtLarge" website. This is something Icann will
> truly detest!
>
> My friends, I have got to a pivotal place (which I expected to happen) in my
> relationship with this organisation. I regard it as essential that we truly
> utilise this domain name, and thereby adopt the architecture which will most
> truly alarm Icann, setting ourselves up as the beginning of a true and
> public "at large" governance-in-exile. I am happy to accept that some
> members want (with total integrity) to live and work within the constraints
> of a narrower "ICANNatlarge" concentrating on creating the at large inside
> Icann. I can see that as a viable exercise. But personally it has never been
> more than a peripheral part of my vision for the At Large. I made clear in
> both elections that I stood for a broader view of the At Large. Therefore, I
> will not personally travel on as a panel member, if we fail to grasp the
> www.atlarge.org initiative and set it up as the heart of the new At Large.
>
> Certainly, I would continue to lend my support as a member to the narrower
> Icannatlarge and wish it well, but at the point we abandon this incredible
> opportunity, my personal vision will have started to diverge, and I will
> seek to be a panel-member of a different (though related) organisation.
> That's how strongly I feel about this.
>
> For most of us, this venture is not a power-trip and positions like "panel-m
> ember" should simply be held by those who are committed to the direction an
> organisation is going. For me, if we do not choose to resolve our site to
> www.atlarge.org , then I would want to be replaced by a member more in
> sympathy with the direction of the group.
>
> I am not arguing for "either... or" : I'm arguing for "yes... and... yes" :
> I want those who pursue the internal Icann project to do so to their utmost,
> but I have to say "yes" too, to the broad far-reaching global "At Large"
> project which www.atlarge.org can become. The concept is inspired. I can
> believe in it. It is an architecture which will strike fear in Icann, and it
> is the only direction I personally believe in.
>
> So my friends, with total good will to you all, I (naturally) put my case.
> Not as a threat, but as a personal conviction. I cannot see any sensible
> reason for "limiting" our website to the "Icannatlarge" subsection of the
> "AtLarge", even though I am happy to draw attention to our historic roots by
> using the Name Icannatlarge as our identity (at least until such time as
> Icann is removed).
>
> My thanks once again to Marc - he has done a generous thing for us. My good
> wishes to you all. And whether as a panel member or a bottom-up regular
> member, I will continue to believe in the At Large as a movement which
> represents the interests of the many against the greed of the few, and which
> I will continue to want to support in each of its many manifestations. For
> me personally, I see the At Large as a multi-faceted network of bottom-up
> groups, who should each be given a platform within www.atlarge.org to grow
> and develop and express - yes - sometimes conflicting views. I do NOT take
> the view that we should "top-down" try to define all web content. I take the
> view that we should simply be facilitators and enablers, providing a
> platform, and letting the many strands of the user community contribute to
> the At Large which is theirs.
>
> No doubt we shall have some discussion and debate on this website matter in
> the coming days or weeks. It is not a falling-out matter. It is a choice.
> And then the people whose choice prevails need to go with that choice and
> lead the group and its website in a resolute direction. I believe we can ALL
> travel forward resolutely with www.atlarge.org
>
> Kind regards
>
> Richard Henderson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Schneiders <marc@schneiders.org>
> To: Hans Klein <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>
> Cc: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>;
> <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
>
> > Hi Hans, Jefsey and Richard,
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in responding. You can have it. Let me know how
> > and where.
> >
> > Good luck with the efforts!
> >
> > Marc
>
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