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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Panel Mandate options
Stephen and all,
Interesting tact. Unfortunately it is incorrectly applied. A
Filibuster is quite opposite of your attributation Stephen.
In fact a filibuster is a celebration of speech in contention
to a particular position held by a potential opposition.
Stephen Waters wrote:
> Having structured discussion on a working list with specific, known
> rules is not censorship anymore than a chair calling a meeting to order
> when two parties get wildly off-topic or speak at length to the
> detriment of others. Jeff Williams' definition of any repression of
> speech as "censorship" is not the standard definition. I doubt the U.S.
> Senate opposition considers it censorship when the effective DoS of a
> filibuster is in progress... and a filibuster is most certainly a
> repression of speech.
>
> -s
>
> On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 15:57, Jeff Williams wrote:
> > Judyth and all,
> >
> > I am in agreement with Judyth's comments/remarks below. I am
> > also puzzled that Judyth on the one hand supports publicly
> > CENSORSHIP, yet on the other says that members are members
> > and have a right to vote and that we have a duty to notify the members
> > of upcoming votes/polls. To me these two positions are juxtaposed,
> > and therefore inconsistent. As such, I again state clearly and without
> > reservation that I do not support Judyth as a watchdog for any
> > election unless or until a recant of the CENSORSHIP position
> > from Judyth is made publicaly.
> >
> > I humbely and kindly await such a recant...
> >
> > espresso@e-scape.net wrote:
> >
> > > At 16:44 +1300 2003/02/28, Joop Teernstra wrote:
> > > >...
> > > >However the members list is not the exact voters' list. There are up
> > > >to 25
> > > >addresses that bounce, so these people cannot be considered "voters".
> > > >There
> > > >is also the matter of the 169 "no messages please" members, who I will
> > > >include only after they opt-in. They have 3 days to do this and one
> > > >day has
> > > >passed. So far 16 have opted in.
> > > >
> > > >This process will result in a final voters' list (for this Poll!)
> > > >that I
> > > >will send to the watchers.
> > > >
> > > >You have expressed reservations about such an opt-in and if Jan wants
> > > >me to
> > > >use the full list too, this would put me under pressure to do as you
> > > >wish.
> > > >Shared responsibility. Walt is O.K. with the opt-in.
> > > >
> > > >But I must say that such a decision goes a beyond mere watching.
> > >
> > > This puzzles me a bit.
> > >
> > > For one thing, within any group or organization I've ever
> > > dealt with, members are members and they have the *right* to vote.
> > >
> > > Telling them when and where they can exercise that right isn't spam
> > > --it's the *duty* of the organization to tell them. Of course,
> > > a member can choose not to exercise the right, but it's not for
> > > us to say that because they chose not to get a mailing list or
> > > announcements of meetings of other organizations taking place in
> > > other countries, they should be disenfranchised.
> > >
> > > "Bounces" are a different matter. An organization can only
> > > use the contact information it was given by the member. It
> > > can't do anything about the members whose mailboxes are
> > > full or changed ISPs without notifying it. Bylaws, like laws,
> > > usually contain something to the effect that notices sent
> > > to the last address provided by the person will be
> > > considered to have been delivered. All we can really do
> > > about making sure people tell us about address changes is
> > > to make sure there's a reminder on the Web site and maybe
> > > a form for the purpose.
> > >
> > > For another, I don't really understand why it puts pressure
> > > on you or goes beyond a scrutineer's role to suggest that
> > > all members should be sent a notice, while your personal
> > > decision to send an opt-in message to the 169 on behalf
> > > of the group (which wasn't asked to approve this decision)
> > > should be seen as more legitimate or impartial.
> > >
> > > I don't know whether you want me to be a watcher or not.
> > > Thus far, only Jeff has formally objected to my serving as
> > > one; Richard, Vittorio and Bruce seem to want me to. I
> > > rather hope others will come out and say what they want as
> > > soon as possible so I can know where I stand on this task.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Judyth
> > >
> > > ##########################################################
> > > Judyth Mermelstein "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> > > Montreal, QC <espresso@e-scape.net>
> > > ##########################################################
> > > "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> > > "Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus."
> > > ##########################################################
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > ================================================================
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
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>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
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