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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Vendetta against Sotiris?

I can see the reasoning behind some people's argument for removing Sotiris
from the panel. A parallel might be the opposition that existed in UK to the
IRA being allowed democratic seats as long as they refused to abandon their
weapons.
---
Moreover, Sotiris's style is problematical to some.

However, I am really and sincerely concerned that there is a vendetta going
on against him just because he's antagonised some people.
Richard, I would be concerned too, if I believed that. I think, however, that we are trying to insist on civility as a basis for our online work.

I am sceptical about some people's motives, however much their actions can
be backed up by 'logic'.
Here I would like to insert the post I sent to Sotiris and the rest of the Membership Committee during our 'meeting' yesterday.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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No. I'd rather ascertain the matter for myself at this point, thanks.

Martha, one more time, where can I send you the paypal money?

--Sotiris Sotiropoulos

Sotoris,
I try to run my life in a very straightforward manner. I am who I say I am. In order to participate in the Verification and Certification Committee, I sent authentication materials to Joey Borda. He and Jeff Holt accepted them. I consider that to be sufficient.

That being said, there probably is no way to authenticate a person online. You know a lot more about the subject that I do. If you agree with me that what constitutes a person's identity is his uniqueness from the moment of conception, then how it can be demonstrated is the question. Is he the sole possessor of some chaacteristic?
Social Security #
Thumbprint
Retinal Image
I imagine they can all be faked.

DNA? Maybe. I said (tongue in cheek) to Joey the other day, that the mouse of the future will have a little flip-up needle which will extract a bit of blood for instant micro analysis. This - for political elections, and also e-commerce.

So the only way you will know that I am who I say I am is to believe someone who knows me and believes me. I find it refreshing, actually, that this hi-tek issue comes down to human trust, human experience and faith in one's fellows.

I'm sure I will be vetted by Joey Borda. If that doesn't help you, it is, I believe, unfortunate, because you have lost part of that human chain of trust.

Now, would I be this casual if $1,000 were at stake? Perhaps not. So that is a comeback I can imagine you making. Our work here is not a commercial enterprise. Can't we afford to use less than state of the art verification methods? It may be that further analysis of the recent vote will expose many non entity voters. If we had had the time and motivation before that vote to perform the authentication which we will do before the next vote, those questionable votes would be vastly fewer.

Honestly, Sotiris, isn't that enough? To cut the rot down to a level that we can tolerate?

Enough of my wordiness; I look forward to what you have to say.
Martha

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There has been no response from Sotoris yet. But there's still time.

I am concerned to see this organisation gain a reputation for genuine
democratic process, because we need to be able to demonstrate this, in order
to argue the case for democratic representation on the ICANN Board. We need
to demonstrate that it can be done.
Don't you think that democracy flourishes in a atmosphere of mutual respect?

Sotiris didn't accept the election methods and processes, but - short of
giving up the fight - he had no real alternative except to go along with it,
protesting all the way.

Just because he does not accept the process that took place does not mean
(logically) that either (a) people weren't allowed to vote for him (they
did); or (b) that he did not wish to represent them (he does).

People want him to represent them. He wants to represent them. If, in
between, the process was or was not legitimate, it is nevertheless entirely
consistent that people (who may also question the process) *still* want him
to represent them and that he *still* wants to represent them.

Just because he objects to the process does not mean that the democratic
will cannot be carried out.
I for one do not think he should be cast off the Panel, or the Membership Committee either, of course. So he railed against the election - so what? - enough 'play' existed in the whole process to permit his ambivalence.



I repeat, it is perfectly clear to me that a vendetta is being waged against
Sotiris by some people who just don't like his style.
Here is where we differ. I sure don't like his style. But in the end I'll defend his right to expression. I didn't send him my ID materials because of his style and because there was an appropriate alternative. I'm trying to make him see that ill humor and meanness are not useful to our group's purposes. We have 'powerful forces arrayed against us' why should we tolerate homegrown unpleasantness.


The democratic
integrity of the recent election needs to be demonstrated by an enquiry by
an Electoral Commission charged with organising future elections; and the
democratic integrity of the recent election needs to be demonstrated by
respecting the wishes of the people who voted for Sotiris.

If, as you have argued, the election was fair, then you should accept the
wish of the electorate to have Sotiris on the panel.

This, too, is a logical argument which deserves some recognition of being
reasonable.

My motive, as I say, is not vendetta or favouritism for Sotiris, but defence
of the democratic process... without which, we can never present a moral
case for ICANN, too, to introduce democratic processes and integrity.


Yrs,

Richard Henderson
I suppose civility is not essential for democracy. Does that mean that we can do without it?

Martha



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