Re: [ICANN-EU] Re: [IFWP] You be the Jury (Polling the Lessig- Sondow exchan...

[SCGupta@aol.com]

Probably the thoughts of many, Mr. Baptista, but you have a colorful way of 
expressing yours. But what are we going to do that's effective! 

Please see below: Call your representative on the hill, the members of the 
commerce committees, and the contracting officer using the FOIA. If we don't 
or can't, we might as well accept ICANN as the INTERNET!

Subj:   Re: ICANN@large endorsement process
Date:   9/20/00
To: <A HREF="mailto:mclaughlin@pobox.com">mclaughlin@pobox.com</A>
CC: <A HREF="mailto:edyson@edventure.com (Esther Dyson)">edyson@edventure.com 
(Esther Dyson)</A>
CC: <A HREF="mailto:roberts@icann.org (Michael Roberts)">roberts@icann.org 
(Michael Roberts)</A>
CC: <A HREF="mailto:matthew_mcgowan@robb.senate.gov (for Ian)">ngaa@xxxx.senat
e.gov 
C</A>C: <A HREF="mailto:dnspolicy@ntia.doc.gov (Karen Rose)">dnspolicy@ntia.do
c.gov (Karen Rose)</A>
CC: <A HREF="mailto:tbyfield@panix.com (t byfield)">tbyfield@panix.com (t 
byfield)</A>
CC: <A HREF="mailto:owner-icann-europe@fitug.de">owner-icann-europe@fitug.de</
A>

In a message dated 9/8/00 7:17:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mclaughlin@pobox.com writes:

>  As one of the at large nominees for the North America region,
>  [ I want to register strong dissatisfaction with the process,
>  [ especially in the
>  [ following areas:
>  [ 
>  [ * Distribution of pin numbers
>  [ * Inability to get a copy of the pin despite repeated requests 
>  [ since 8/15/00
>  [ * Inability to edit or modify my ICANN profile because of lack of the pin
>  
> We're quite interested in any problems with PIN numbers that emerge.  
> However, you received your PIN letter in a timely way, and activated your 
> membership.  I understand that you have since lost the PIN letter; you 
could 
> have received a reminder letter, if you had simply followed the 
instructions 
> on the website.  

The Reminder Email only gives one the user id and password, like the 
following:

{Subj:   ICANN At Large Membership 
{Date:  9/10/00 2:28:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time
{From:  newmember@icann.org
{To:    SCGupta@aol.com
[
ICANN At Large Member Access Reminder
{
{Please find below the requested Members Only access information
[you requested.

{Membership number: 
{{Password: x
{[Save this e-mail for your records. 
{
If you have any questions, please e-mail us
{at: mailto:support@members.icann.org
{====================================
I tried that several times, not I never received a new PIN or a PIN reminder.

The search on the Web sites Icann.org and members.icann.org had one reference 
to a PIN reminder (albeit in English and other languages) as follows:

[@Large FAQ
<A HREF="http://members.icann.org/faq.htm#pin">[What if I lose my password or 
PIN number?</A>
[
[If you have lost your password, you should go to the members only area and 
click [on the appropriate button. Because of the cost of mailing PIN numbers 
via surface [mail, ICANN will send NO MORE THAN ONE PIN REMINDER. Passwords 
and PIN [numbers will not be given out by telephone. 

If there is a way to request a PIN reminder on the site, it's well hidden. As 
for requests for PIN reminder, please see the following between the lines 
with equal signs ("============").

=============================================================Subj:  ICANN AT 
Large Membership Information 
Date:   8/23/00
To: support@members.icann.org

Sorry to bother you again, but I can't find my pin for the at large 
membership. I think it's at home and I am not. Could you please provide it, 
so that I can ay least endorse myself?

Thank you very much.
Subhash Gupta

Subj:   PIN
Date:   9/1/00
To: mclaughlin@pobox.com

MAY I REQUEST AGAIN THE PIN for logging on to my profile, and updating it? 
You did send it to me, but it is some place at home, and I am not. I have 
searched every place I could.

Please email it or mail it via USPS Express Mail to:
 
I'll pay for the charges.

Subj:   Fwd: Background and Contact Information on ICANN 
Date:   9/6/00
To: MCLAUGHLIN@POBOX.COM
CC: Subh01@cs.com

In a message dated 9/6/00 7:48:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCGupta writes:

>  
>  Senator xxxx's Office
>  Washington, DC 
>  Telephone 202 ..
>  Fax 202 ...
>  
>  Dear Mr. Mc:
>  
>  The following information on ICANN and its contract with the U.S. 
Government 
>  relates to our conversation earlier today regarding my candidacy for At 
Large 
>  representation on the ICANN Board, and Inability To Obtain The Login Pin 
Despite 
>  Repeated Requests To: Mr. Andrew McLaughlin <mclaughlin@icann.org> 
>  chief policy officer & CFO, Internet corporation for assigned names and 
>  numbers (http://www.icann.org).
>  

>  Sincerely,
    
Subj:   Re: [ICANN-candidates] Torpedoing candidates.
Date:   9/4/00
To: roessler@does-not-exist.org
To: rolf.oberhaensli@virglob-sp.org
CC: icann-europe@fitug.de
CC: icann-candidates@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/4/00 6:25:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
roessler@does-not-exist.org writes:

> Folks,
>  
>  please try to resist the temptation to explicitly discredit one
>  candidate or another.
>  
>  If you believe that some candidate should be torpedoed, and hasn't
>  been sufficiently in the past, find interesting questions re ICANN,
>  and let the candidate torpedo himself publicly. ,-)
>  
>  If you can't find questions suitable for this purpose, don't try
>  shooting.
>  

Thank you, Thomas, for the message. I agree.

As it is, this "election" process is divisive, pitting one against the other, 
instead of discussion of issues and evolving a consensus.

There are two Web sites with live statistics on each candidate, and 
projections based on "expected" turnout. The election for a local clerk does 
not allow this kind of influence on the electorate. The electorate is secret, 
not the election!  Wasn't there supposed to be a forum for each candidate for 
Q&As? When I registered as a member, I could see not only the name, but the 
profile, website, and email address of the members.

If @large members are afraid of exposure, when nobody else involved with 
ICANN is anonymous, it says something about the Internet and ICANN. It also 
relates to an article on my platform -- a Bill of Rights and Responsibilities 
for Internet users so that everyone can participate, if they like, without 
fear about losing privacy or risking security.
 
I got one response to my platform email. The electors, however, can't see the 
platform on my ICANN profile. I cannot update it because I CAN'T FIND THE PIN 
ISSUED MONTHS AGO. REPEATED REQUESTS TO MR. ANDREW McLaughlin HAVE BEEN IN 
VAIN. IF I CANNOT GET A NEW PIN, ATLEAST UPDATE MY ICANN PROFILE FROM THE WEB 
AT http://indiasamaj.com/icann.htm.

Does this remind any one of a system in which anyone can run for election, 
but cannot campaign, and "they'll will tell you who won?

I don't have a remote chance of election. I am only interested in discussion 
of issues and healthy growth of the Internet.

Respectfully,

=========================================================

> There is nothing ICANN can do to prevent people from losing 
> PIN letters, or to make them write the numbers down in an easy-to-remember 
> place.

Agreed, but even God gives us more than one chance! Can't we have a system of 
reminders? Everybody else does! If you forget the code to your bank card, the 
bank just does not close your account and keep the money, Does it Andrew? If 
I could enter the profile first without a pin, why couldn't I update it later?

> [ * Refusal by ICANN staff to update the profile 
>  
>  
> Not true -- you never sent me any edits.

Pleas see above. I asked you many times. Finally 2-3 hours before the close 
of the endorsement period, you said "send me instructions line by line." 
Would it have been easier for you to just delete the old file, and replace 
with the new one? And, why wait till the last minute. I replied "Thanks, but 
no, thanks. Too much, Too late!"
 
>  
> [ * Display of endorsement results throughout the endorsement process, thus 
> [ influencing the endorsement process
>  
>  
> I disagree -- it's better to post more information, rather than less.
  
That's one hell of an argument! Why didn't you then also display who endorsed 
whom? Who the at large members are? Why someone endorsed a candidate. What 
was being discussed in the discussion boards?

> [ * Anonymity of the electors, and thus, very limited capacity to campaign 
> [ (there could have been a way to achieve a balance between 
> [ concerns for their 
> [ privacy and the need for candidates to campaign)
>  
>  
> Every member has received a weekly email reminding them to check out the 
> candidate pages and consider making an endorsement.

I am sure that there could be a way to do both -- provide some minimal 
information about the electors and more information about the candidates. 
Candidates could send information from a designated domain, and a member 
could opt-out or block information from that domain!

> [ * Handling of the endorsement process by overwhelmed ICANN staff 
> [ who couldn't 
> [ do anything other than follow the policy guidelines, supposedly 
> [ developed by 
> [ the Board, despite unexpected events and numbers
>  
> Actually, the endorsement period has proceeded quite smoothly, from the 
> ICANN's staff's perspective.
 
No, I spent quite some time talking to the ICANN staff in operations and 
public relations. They said they were trying their best to cope, but they 
didn't know where any of the board member was. There are "always traveling." 
There is no phone number. That's what Ian from Senator''s office heard!  The 
"lowly staffers" talked to me several times, before and after the end of the 
endorsement process, to address my concerns, but said they do not know what 
to do. Someone at ICANN told me there is an intern who's is taking the mail 
for Andrews and responding to it as best as possible.

>  [ * Lack of access to any board member or Andrew McLaughlin, person 
> [ in charge 
> [ of during the process
>  
>  
> Nonsense -- all Directors have publicly posted email address, and you and I 
> have corresponded numerous times.
>  

I had difficulty finding email addresses. But I was looking for phone numbers 
because my emails were not responded to. You never replied to any of my 
requests to obtain the pin or update the profile until the last minute when 
you finally responded "I don't understand what you are talking about" As a 
government contractor, representing the DOC, why can't you have posted phone 
numbers where a member can call somebody who can do something! Every 
organization does! You may not get the decision maker directly, but somebody 
can take a message for him and get back in a few days, if not hours! I ran a 
corporation for 7-8 years, the client at all levels knew which phone numbers 
to call to reach us, and get satisfactory response.

> [ * Issuance of directives and responses to candidates by ICANN staff using 
> [ AM's email
> [ 
> What does that mean?  Any responses from my email account come from me
>  
>  --Andrew
>  

Already addressed above.
----------------
Please respond to it because we have the same issues now during the election 
period. I still believe that the entire process is flawed, should be 
invalidated, and that I and others were denied our rights as members and 
candidates. I could have been a candidate now. The only way to do that is do 
the process all over again, or to include me in the candidates list.

One more issue to my original list of issues: why are there 4 
election--committee nominees in the North America region while only 1 or 2 in 
all other regions? Is this a way to satisfy some vested interests, rather 
than provide at large representation as it was intended?

I repeat my original message to you and other board members below, after 
including this new item:

**************************************************************************
As one of the at large nominees for the North America region, I want to 
register strong dissatisfaction with the process, especially in the following 
areas:

* Distribution of pin numbers
* Inability to get a copy of the pin despite repeated requests since 8/15/00
* Inability to edit or modify my ICANN profile because of lack of the pin
* Refusal by ICANN staff to update the profile 
* Display of endorsement results throughout the endorsement process, thus 
influencing the endorsement process
* Anonymity of the electors, and thus, very limited capacity to campaign 
(there could have been a way to achieve a balance between concerns for their 
privacy and the need for candidates to campaign)
* Handling of the endorsement process by overwhelmed ICANN staff who couldn't 
do anything other than follow the policy guidelines, supposedly developed by 
the Board, despite unexpected events and numbers
* Lack of access to any board member or Andrew McLaughlin, person in charge 
of during the process
* Issuance of directives and responses to candidates by ICANN staff using 
AM's email
*disprportionate numbers of committee-nominated candidates in the North 
America region

Because of the above and other reasons, the entire process was flawed, and 
should be invalidated, or at least, extended with new policy and procedures.

Thank you.