Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Richard and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,

  It is good that you now recognize this.  However in the interest of
Transparency, openness, and accountability as a Panel Member
you should direct these sorts of responses to the members for
purposes of clarity and honesty...

Richard Henderson wrote:

> I was referring to the substance of his mail, Jeff, not to the reference to
> you which I'd actually overlooked.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> To: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: <abel@able-towers.com>; 'Hans Klein' <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>;
> <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>; <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
>
> > Richard and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,
> >
> >   The JW's (me's) of this world are the same stakeholders/users as
> > and inclusive of all other stakeholders/users.  Hence I am a bit
> > puzzled as to how you can agree with what Able says below, Richard?
> > You can't have it both ways...
> >
> > Richard Henderson wrote:
> >
> > > I agree with what you say, Abel.
> > >
> > > We're supposed to be a bottom-up organisation.
> > >
> > > Let each country take responsibility for it's own web-pages, its own
> > > initiatives, and work through its www.country.atlarge.org  and let's see
> > > which countries really start to grow.
> > >
> > > And where a country is under-represented, let each region support
> outreach
> > > into that country through www.region.atlarge.org  and again, let's start
> to
> > > get this organisation really moving as the Real multi-faceted at large!
> > >
> > > And let WG-Outreach put together support material and advice and further
> > > ideas at www.outreach.atlarge.org
> > >
> > > And let the panel post and facilitate through www.panel.atlarge.org
> > >
> > > And let other organisations, though independent, ally with the atlarge
> at
> > > www.othergroup?.atlarge.org
> > >
> > > This way we will start to see the free and independent growth of the At
> > > Large, as an umbrella network of groups outside ICANN, yet demanding a
> > > decisive say INSIDE Icann.
> > >
> > > This is the version of At Large which Icann truly does not want to
> happen,
> > > because it does not submit to Icann control and machinations. Yes, it
> may
> > > participate in their committees and schemes to subsume us, but the REAL
> > > AtLarge is fully established and independent and growing, outside
> Icann -
> > > the world at large!
> > >
> > > I urge the panel and the membership to grasp this architecture and this
> > > potential.
> > >
> > > Icann's www.at-large.org is a hollow org with a hyphen, basically
> consisting
> > > of Denise and Esther.
> > >
> > > The real www.atlarge.org is taking root all over the world, and consists
> > > already of 1000 people in over 70 countries. Under a broad umbrella and
> > > building a coalition of supporters it will challenge the tiny power-bloc
> > > inside Icann to hand back representation to the millions of ordinary
> > > internet users worldwide.
> > >
> > > The Internet belongs to the whole world, not to a clique.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Richard Henderson
> > >
> > > PS: Meanwhile, let me remind you that, temporarily, you can see the
> > > membership listed in over 70 national groups at
> > > ww.theinternetchallenge.com  - the evidence that this organisation has a
> > > worldwide following. We also have the membership e-mail lists for each
> > > country. We now have the Name of the organisation and the perfect site
> to
> > > host each country's growth. The By-Laws and Mission Statement are in
> process
> > > and we shall soon have those too. Things are moving. This is a
> demonstration
> > > of part of the At Large - there is much more to follow.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Abel Wisman <abel@able-towers.com>
> > > To: 'Richard Henderson' <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>; 'Marc
> Schneiders'
> > > <marc@schneiders.org>; 'Hans Klein' <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>;
> > > <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > > Cc: <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on
> atlarge.org!
> > >
> > > > In short:
> > > >
> > > > I support this whole heartedly, I subscrive to the ideas presented and
> > > > am willing to support this fully with all means possible.
> > > >
> > > > It is time to stop discussing matters with the JW's of this planet and
> > > > start to make a difference, which is afaik the outset of the atlarge
> > > > group to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > I propose to have all country representing groups given their
> > > > >country>.atlarge.org with which they have the freedom to make it work
> > > > in any way they see fit, providing they are members of the
> icannatlarge
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > Abel
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com]
> > > > Sent: 27 October 2002 00:15
> > > > To: Marc Schneiders; Hans Klein; atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> > > > Cc: jefsey@club-internet.fr
> > > > Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Once again, Marc Schneiders has displayed brilliant generosity and
> > > > placed trust in our organisation (a trust which we must work hard to
> > > > justify and fulfil). Marc has already donated www.icannatlarge.org to
> > > > the group (which has been chosen by vote as the name of the group).
> > > >
> > > > Now Marc is also giving us www.atlarge.org which is a key domain name,
> > > > in that it publicly mirrors and challenges ICANN's phoney at large
> which
> > > > they promote at www.at-large.org
> > > >
> > > > My advice to the group is to retain the organisation name
> > > > "IcannatLarge.org" (with or without the .org) but to make that domain
> > > > name and all our sites resolve to www.atlarge.org (as Jefsey has
> > > > suggested so convincingly all along).
> > > >
> > > > This will enable us to focus on who we truly set out to be : the true
> AT
> > > > LARGE, the at large org which tries to speak for ordinary internet
> users
> > > > all round the world. With this domain name www.atlarge.org we have an
> > > > umbrella which (if we are wise) we will use to draw in many and varied
> > > > at-large groups and initiatives from all round the world. While we
> will
> > > > continue to build our ICANN-inheritance identity as the inheritor of
> > > > ICANN's at large, we need to now look more broadly to our shared
> > > > coalition with user-groups all round the world, and we would be mad to
> > > > be exclusive.
> > > >
> > > > The site at www.atlarge.org is inspired intuition, offering subdomains
> > > > for each and every at large group and organisation around the world,
> to
> > > > share and participate under the www.atlarge umbrella - and offers us
> the
> > > > chance to publicly set up camp beyond Icann, as an official opposition
> > > > movement to Icann for all the world to see. By using subdomains, we
> can
> > > > now have a true bottom-up network developing : www.france.atlarge.org
> > > > and www.uk.atlarge.org  and  www.argentine.atlarge.org  and
> > > > www.southafrica.atlarge.org  and  www.outreach.atlarge.org  and
> > > > www.transfers.atlarge.org   and  www.newtlds.atlarge.org  and
> > > > www.italia.atlarge.org  and  www.nz.atlarge.org  and
> > > > www.gay.atlarge.org and  www.digitaldivide.atlarge.org  and so on and
> so
> > > > on...
> > > >
> > > > We can, indeed, even invite all the members of Denise Michel's
> "pretend"
> > > > Atlarge committee to join our own At Large which has the superiority
> of
> > > > actually having 1000 members already in it, whereas Denise has,
> > > > basically, her and Esther! So we should not be hesitant to create our
> > > > "mirror" organisation. They can't possibly challenge our use of "at
> > > > large" when we can demonstrate that our members were the actual at
> large
> > > > all along, and besides, imagine the press publicity if she tried! We
> > > > need to be very bold at this juncture and insist that we - the users
> of
> > > > the world - the people Icann dispossessed by coup - are the true At
> > > > Large, gathering under the "AtLarge" domain name at the "AtLarge"
> > > > website. This is something Icann will truly detest!
> > > >
> > > > My friends, I have got to a pivotal place (which I expected to happen)
> > > > in my relationship with this organisation. I regard it as essential
> that
> > > > we truly utilise this domain name, and thereby adopt the architecture
> > > > which will most truly alarm Icann, setting ourselves up as the
> beginning
> > > > of a true and public "at large" governance-in-exile. I am happy to
> > > > accept that some members want (with total integrity) to live and work
> > > > within the constraints of a narrower "ICANNatlarge" concentrating on
> > > > creating the at large inside Icann. I can see that as a viable
> exercise.
> > > > But personally it has never been more than a peripheral part of my
> > > > vision for the At Large. I made clear in both elections that I stood
> for
> > > > a broader view of the At Large. Therefore, I will not personally
> travel
> > > > on as a panel member, if we fail to grasp the www.atlarge.org
> initiative
> > > > and set it up as the heart of the new At Large.
> > > >
> > > > Certainly, I would continue to lend my support as a member to the
> > > > narrower Icannatlarge and wish it well, but at the point we abandon
> this
> > > > incredible opportunity, my personal vision will have started to
> diverge,
> > > > and I will seek to be a panel-member of a different (though related)
> > > > organisation. That's how strongly I feel about this.
> > > >
> > > > For most of us, this venture is not a power-trip and positions like
> > > > "panel-m ember" should simply be held by those who are committed to
> the
> > > > direction an organisation is going. For me, if we do not choose to
> > > > resolve our site to www.atlarge.org , then I would want to be replaced
> > > > by a member more in sympathy with the direction of the group.
> > > >
> > > > I am not arguing for "either... or" : I'm arguing for "yes... and...
> > > > yes" : I want those who pursue the internal Icann project to do so to
> > > > their utmost, but I have to say "yes" too, to the broad far-reaching
> > > > global "At Large" project which www.atlarge.org can become. The
> concept
> > > > is inspired. I can believe in it. It is an architecture which will
> > > > strike fear in Icann, and it is the only direction I personally
> believe
> > > > in.
> > > >
> > > > So my friends, with total good will to you all, I (naturally) put my
> > > > case. Not as a threat, but as a personal conviction. I cannot see any
> > > > sensible reason for "limiting" our website to the "Icannatlarge"
> > > > subsection of the "AtLarge", even though I am happy to draw attention
> to
> > > > our historic roots by using the Name Icannatlarge as our identity (at
> > > > least until such time as Icann is removed).
> > > >
> > > > My thanks once again to Marc - he has done a generous thing for us. My
> > > > good wishes to you all. And whether as a panel member or a bottom-up
> > > > regular member, I will continue to believe in the At Large as a
> movement
> > > > which represents the interests of the many against the greed of the
> few,
> > > > and which I will continue to want to support in each of its many
> > > > manifestations. For me personally, I see the At Large as a
> multi-faceted
> > > > network of bottom-up groups, who should each be given a platform
> within
> > > > www.atlarge.org to grow and develop and express - yes - sometimes
> > > > conflicting views. I do NOT take the view that we should "top-down"
> try
> > > > to define all web content. I take the view that we should simply be
> > > > facilitators and enablers, providing a platform, and letting the many
> > > > strands of the user community contribute to the At Large which is
> > > > theirs.
> > > >
> > > > No doubt we shall have some discussion and debate on this website
> matter
> > > > in the coming days or weeks. It is not a falling-out matter. It is a
> > > > choice. And then the people whose choice prevails need to go with that
> > > > choice and lead the group and its website in a resolute direction. I
> > > > believe we can ALL travel forward resolutely with www.atlarge.org
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > Richard Henderson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Marc Schneiders <marc@schneiders.org>
> > > > To: Hans Klein <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>
> > > > Cc: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>;
> > > > <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:46 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Hans, Jefsey and Richard,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for the delay in responding. You can have it. Let me know how
> > > > > and where.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck with the efforts!
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
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> > Regards,
> >
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> >
> >

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



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