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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Chair Election notices posted by Jefsey
Hello, all,
At 14:52 -0800 2002/11/05, Jeff Williams wrote:
> The following is to hopefully clarify Jefseys postings on elections
>for "Chair" of whatever...
>
> First see:
> http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0211/msg00015.html
>This post from Jefsey seems to indicate that a Chair election for the
>PANEL only sense Joanna resigned. ???
>I had thought however that the Panel elects it's own chair?
>However this post from Jefsey doesn't clarify exactly what he means
>which perhaps leads to confusion.
We do have a very unclear process going on here. It may not help that the rules for our elections have not been posted as part of it.
In this instance, let's just look at the Call for Nominations and description posted last week but which for some reason came through as dated November 8/02:
>>>
Delivered-To: mailing list atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
X-Sender: jefsey@mail.club-internet.fr
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:32:38 +0100
To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] PANNEL CHAIR ELECTION
I have accepted to run the vote to elect the Chair of the Panel after the
resignation of Joanna Lane.
This election will include two votes over a period of 2 days each.
1. One for Chair
Starting Monday 4th, 00:00 GMT until Wednesday 6th, 00:00 GMT nominations
Starting Wenesday 6th, 00:00 GMT until Fridday 8th 00;00 GMT seconding and
acceptance
Starting Friday 8th 00:00 GMT until Sunday 10th 00:00 GMT votes using a
ballot I will send the panelists.
2. One for Alt.Chair
Starting Monday 11th 00:00 with the same schedule.
I am not a candidate.
jfc
<<<
This clearly refers ONLY to chairmanship of icannatlarge.org, not to the (abortive?) election of chairs for the various working groups.
I had construed this message in the light of another posting (which I apparently deleted or misfiled) to mean that the Panel, or perhaps Hans Klein, had decided Jefsey should organize the process.
Since it was addressed to [atlarge-discuss] rather than the Panel, I assumed it meant the whole group was being asked for nominations. To be honest, I expected a follow-up message about how the balloting would be conducted and some list traffic about it, including some nominations.
Jefsey's follow-up message (correctly) dated Nov. 4/02 is addressed to the Panel list and only "Cc'd" to [atlarge-discuss], which I hadn't noticed when I sent my reply to it:
>>>>
Delivered-To: mailing list atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 02:38:53 +0100
To: At Large Panel <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
From: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] CHAIR ELECTION
As per my commitment I will now act as a polling secretary for the election
of the Chair of this Panel. From GMT 00:00 today until Thursday GMT 00.00 I
will register the nominations. The seconding will be registered the two
following days and the votes the two days after, so we will know the new
Chair replacing Joanna Lane on Monday GMT 00:00.
The same procedure will then be carried the next week, the same days and
hours, for the alt.chair election.
I suggest the Panelists that we only vote for candidates having clearly
indicated their intents. In particular in the following areas:
1. the type of Chairmanship they have in mind
2. the organization of the work of this Panel
3. the support of every Panelist non conflicting minority agenda and the
respect of the majority agenda
4. an equal cultural respect
5. a serious dedication to the good of this organization
jfc
"they want to control, we want to serve"
<<<<
I would be very interested to know what is actually going on here. My assumption that these elections would follow the procedure used for the last Panel election, or else an alternative procedure would be posted in good time, was obviously erroneous. However, a clarification of the situation would have been nice.
To be perfectly honest, my own participation in icannatlarge.org will cease effective Monday, November 25, 2002 if I don't see a coherent explanation of *something* from *somebody* on behalf of the whole Panel by then. The following may make it plainer why I am saying this.
Jeff continued:
> Outreach Chair elections posts.
>Here is the second from Eric for Sotiris:
>http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00995.html
>
>Here is Michaels nomination of VIttorio for WG-Outreach chair
>http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg01017.html
>
> Here is my nomination of Sotiris for WG-Outreach chair
>http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0210/msg00983.html
>
> These are all I could find on election issues for posts...
I agree that it's a fiddly business trying to keep everything straight but it is worth doing, I think. Michael's nomination of Vittorio was not for WG-Outreach Chair at all:
>>Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:53:26 -0500
>>From: "Micheal Sherrill" <micheal@beethoven.com>
>>To: <Wg-web@icann-at-large.org>, <Wg-web@icann-at-large.org>
>>CC: "atlarge discuss list" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
>>Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [wg-web] Re: [atlarge-discuss] Call for candidates for Chair of WG-Web again...
>>
>>Hello:
>>
>>Sorry, but both you and the Zombie/Kook are incorrect. I nominated Vittorio Bertola for Chair of WG-Web and it was seconded by Jefsey Morfin. However, I think that any of the three candidates are worthy of the election. I completely ignore any input from idiots that think they represent a group of people that rattle around in their head ;]
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>
>>Micheal Sherrill
This is what I have on the question of the WG-Outreach Chair, and which I posted to the Outreach list on Nov. 2/02 so Jeff certainly received a copy:
> ...
>Richard Henderson, nominated by J.-F. C. Morfin, seconded by Judyth Mermelstein; he declined in favour of either of the other candidates.
>
>Two candidates were duly nominated and seconded:
>
>- Bruce Young nominated by Richard Henderson,
> seconded by J.-F. C. Morfin
>- Sotiris Sotiropoulos nominated by Jeff Williams,
> seconded by Eric Hugh Dierker
> (on atlarge-discuss, not this list, on
> Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:32:01 -0800;
> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Outreach chair)
This was in response to a message from Jefsey; namely,
>To: outreach@icann-at-large.org
>From: "J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
>Subject: [atlarge-outreach] nominations and vote for WG-outreach
>Sender: Outreach-admin@icann-at-large.org
>List-Id: <outreach_icann-at-large.org.icann-at-large.org>
>List-Archive: <http://icann-at-large.org/pipermail/outreach_icann-at-large.org/>
>Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 00:56:16 +0100
>[some header stuff snipped]
>
>Please WG-Outreach Members,
>It is Friday 00;00 GMT.
>We have Bruce nominated and seconded.
>We have Sotiris nominated
>We have Richard nominated and asking not to be confrimed if possible.
>
>This leaves us with Bruce being nominated and seconded.
>I understand that no one oppose Bruce as the WG-Outreach coordinator.
>Congrats Bruce, now we can work.
>
>I think this terminates my job for his election.
>jfc
My message to WG-Outreach also raised several procedural questions about the process by which a winner was declared while not all of the Outreach members had been subscribed to its list in time to participate in the nominations, let alone vote.
Anyway, **none** of my questions or doubts about how this group is conducting its affairs have been answered, and what we *are* doing is neither democratic nor efficient. Personally, I find this extremely frustrating and depressing. I won't repeat my reasons since they should be clear to anyone who cares, except to say that if it's not worth the trouble to do things well, it seems absurd to be trying to do them at all.
If you all think I'm insane to care about things like the legitimacy of elections, please tell me so and I'll stop bothering you immediately.
Sincerely,
Judyth
P.S. According to what I've got stored on my Mac, this is where the WG-Web elections stood last time they were mentioned on [atlarge-discuss]:
>From: "jv" <jveillo@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: Wg-web@icann-at-large.org
>Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 20:34:42 -0600
>
>Do we still have three candidates?
>
>> We are now Friday 00:00 GMT.
>> As far as I understand we have as candidate
>>
>> 1. Ron Sherwood nominated by Joop but not seconded?
>> 2. Vittorio Bertolla nominated by Hans and seconded
>> 3. Bruce Young nominated by Hans but no seconded?
>
>If so, I second Bruce Young.
>
>James
>jveillo@bellsouth.net
and Michael Sherrill pointed out that 2. should read "Vittorio Bertolla nominated by Michael Sherrill, seconded by Jefsey Morfin (see message quoted above). I have no idea whether WG-Web has elected a chair since I'm not a member of it.
HTH,
Judyth
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