[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] global government without representation ICANN style

Todd, all assembly members, stakeholders or interested parties,

  Todd, perhaps you are not very aware, but there are already at
least two pending law suits along these lines...

todd glassey wrote:

> All -and Vint as the ICANN Chair -
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "James Love" <james.love@cptech.org>
> Cc: "NCDNHC-discuss list" <discuss@icann-ncc.org>; "General Assembly of the
> DNSO" <ga@dnso.org>; "atlarge discuss list" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 6:56 PM
> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [ncdnhc-discuss] global government without
> representation ICANN style
> > Jamie, all assembly members, stakeholders, or interested parties,
> >
> >   I must say I cannot understand this reasoning provided yesterdays
> > ICANN's recommendations for reform either!  Truly bizarre and
> > not even close to the requirements of the WHite Paper or the MoU.
> Why doesnt someone then just start a lawsuit against ICANN saying that it
> cannot, by its very makeup or process, represent the global interestets of a
> planetary-wide Internet, especially as a lone California Corporation. What
> more needs to be said?  Further why not escalate this and file a formal
> complaint with the California Secretary's of State's office to challenge its
> status as a California Corporation in that it claims to represents the
> interests of the people it serves, when it clearly does not.
> By the way - the easiest  proof to the argument regarding "that ICANN is
> incompetent to operate as it is", is by asking the question whether the DoC
> has the legal authority to speak for the other nations that are NIC
> impacted? I think that at this time the answer is a simple "No, not at this
> time".   And since the Internet is no longer the US Government alone... we
> have a problem here.
> What DoC is empowered to do now is to speak for the American People and to
> that end they can establish the contracts for the service inside the network
> boundries (nebulous as they are) for the US. But it ends there, unless they
> have contracts with these other countries to run their NIC's for them,
> similar to the operations contracts that many of the NIST labs have with
> others. This is a key concept since DNS is and was initially architected to
> have a single registrar as its root and this is its inherent liability.
> Personally I would like to see NIST's ITL take over the entire Management
> services for the "US Root Zones", since this would make the operations model
> directly accountable and easily managed by the people it was supposedly
> built to serve.
> Likewise, I would also like to see real eBorders produced and supported by
> the White Houses Home Security Office. I think this is a key concept to
> making Internet Law enforcable, at least here in the US. What you other
> folks do in the rest of the world about your legal problems is your issue,
> that is to say until there is a global representation at the UN for all
> global Internet operations and a global Internet Bill of Rights.
> >   It is my belief from reading this that the ICANN BoD and staff
> > are deathly afraid of stakeholders/users, in fact even paranoid of
> > us having any voice or vote on the internet in any way shape or
> > form.
> Yes I agree - and that because as a forum and organized group, we outnumber
> them, by potentially a factor of tens of millions to one here in the US
> alone if you consider the End-Users and not just operator/owers as well.
> Wouldn't you be concerned too?
> >
> > James Love wrote:
> >
> > > WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?   The Committee on ICANN "reform" and evolution
> has
> > > released its most astonishing document yet.
> Personally it does do some things correctly (the PSO divestitture) but I
> agree that it misses the rest of the bigger-picture's point completely.
> One of these bigger picture issues, is that ICANN itself cannot itself be an
> Global Arbiter of the Internet since it cannot take into account the legal
> requirements from each of the Internet-infected nations. It also is not
> ratified as the sole arbiter of what goes on in the Internet world by anyone
> but the US DoC that I can see, nor did it ever seek individual acceptance at
> the Individual Country Level.
> Further it has no real way of dealing with other constituency's like NANOG
> *(the North American Network Operators Group) and others like it. So like
> you, I have to ask how can it possibly claim to represent anything but its
> own interests to date?
> > >  It wipes away every single
> > > area where there might be independence from a completely all powerful
> board
> > > of directors, which can pretty  do whatever it wants with the global DNS
> > > system and controls its own elections (by hand picking its electors).
> Clearly, it is an attempt to put in place an appointed autocracy. If the
> directors couldnt get it right to start with why give them more power?
> > It
> > > takes the current dysfunctional body, the ICANN DNSO, which was supposed
> to
> > > make bottom up the
> operating guidelines
> > :> for domain name policy, and it replaces this group charter with a
> > > system where the ICANN board directly picks its chair and as many
> members of
> > > the steering committee it considers appropriate.
> Lets ampliify on this a tad. You also mean that ICANN replaces "it" (The
> DNSO GA) with a operating model wherein it has no obligation to take
> anything including input or mandate, from its GA group. The net of this is
> that the GA group is totally disenfranchised in this new plan.
> BTW - The DNSO is dysfunctional becuase of too many irons in the fire. If
> the DNSO was recharted to be the voting voice of the DNS Owner/Operators it
> would be what it is supposed to be, and that voice was specifically
> chartered to take the collective voice into the Board of the ICANN as our
> representation there, this would all be moot.
> > > It eliminates an elected
> > > chair of the DNSO General Assembly.
> This is unacceptable.
> > > It take away the DNSO's right to elect
> > > members of the ICANN board, and the new "GNSO" can't really decide
> anything
> > > anymore anyway, just in case the total control by the ICANN board isn't
> > > enough of a power grab.
> See -   See the above commentary
> > > It gets rid of the "PSO", which includes
> > > independent groups as the IETF or the W3C, which have not been
> sufficiently
> > > docile.
> This is actually a very good thing. Its time to neuter the PSO. It has no
> business making political decisions and it does nothing else these days -
> more on this in your commentary below.
> > > The DoC MoU required independent review process, which was never
> > > implemented, is now toast.
> And the IETF is the core of this refusal to provide propriety in its
> process - more on this in your commentary below.
> > > There is a loser pays arbitration just to ask
> > > if the ICANN board is not obeying its own bylaws, which of course it can
> > > change at the drop of a hat if it needs to.
> This is unacceptable.
> > >
> > > This document is so completely in your face to the US Department of
> Commerce
> > > and the Internet community one has to admire the guts of the current
> > > board.  Vint Cerf, Joe Sims and the Reform Committe make Bill Gates and
> > > Steve Balmer look like wimps.  Jamie
> > >
> > > http://www.icann.org/committees/evol-reform/recommendations-31may02.htm
> > >
> > >          Recommendations for the Evolution and Reform of ICANN
> > >       Posted: 31 May 2002
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >       Committee on ICANN Evolution and Reform
> > >       Recommendations for the Evolution and Reform of ICANN
> > >
> > >       ========
> > >
> > >       II. Board Composition
> > >
> > >       These general principles lead us to the following conclusions on
> Board
> > > composition:
> > >
> > >         a.. The following should be ex officio Board seats, meaning the
> > > person who currently holds that position occupies an ICANN Board seat:
> > >           a. The CEO of ICANN
> > >           b. The Chair (or delegate) of the GNSO Steering Committee
> > > (Appointed by BOD)
> > >           c. The Chair (or delegate) of the ASO Council
> > >           d. The Chair (or delegate) of the CNSO Steering Committee
> > >           e. The Chair (or delegate) of the GAC
> > >           f. The Chair (or delegate) of the RSSAC
> > >           g. The Chair (or delegate) of the SAC (appointed by ICANN CEO)
> > >           h. The Chair (or delegate) of the TAC if established, or if
> not,
> > > the Chair (or delegate) of the IAB.  (TAC probably appointed by  CEO)
> > >
> > > * ICANN requests comments on whether or not some or all of these
> > > should be non-voting members.
> > >
> > > * There should be [five to eleven] additional members of the
> > > Board, selected by a Nominating Committee.
> > >
> > > * Nominating Committee both nominates and elects member the [five
> > > to eleven] non-ex officio board members.  It also placed members
> directly on
> > > the GNSO and other ICANN "advisory" bodies.   It is chaired by an ICANN
> > > board member.
> > >
> > > * Basically, the ICANN board chooses the Nominating Committee,
> > > which in turn chooses the board.  The ICANN board may also have the
> right to
> > > reject candidates selected by its hand picked nominatng committee.
> > >
> > > NEW FACE OF DNSO (now called GNSO)
> > >
> > > ICANN board picks the chair of the new GNSO, and the GNSO
> > > steering committee includes "an appropriate number of other members
> selected
> > > by the ICANN Nominating Committee."
> This is totally unacceptable.
> >>The head of the GA will be chaired by
> > > the ICANN board selected chair of the GNSO.
> No way -  its better that the GA will elect its own chair. We should control
> the horizontal and the vertical, not you ICANN Board Members.
> >>  GNSO selects zero ICANN board
> > > members.
> WRONG - Vint - I propose to ICANN that the new GNSO ***will *** elect at
> least 3 of the existing directors seats, an no other seats will be added.
> That these seats will appropriately come form the PSO and ASO director
> pools.
> Its also my feeling that its time that the powerbase in the ICANN
> represented the people that use the Internet as well as the others. That
> means the domain owners and operators but it also means the end-users as
> well. Has ICANN ever done anything to take into account end-user rights and
> privilegse and to defining what they are?
> > >
> > >
> > > "The Protocol Supporting Organization should be dissolved."
> No!, not dissolved, but rather spun off and morphed into a more formal
> framework.
> PSO problems and the IETF
> -----------------------------
> The IETF's protocols have brought us to where we are today and as screwed up
> as that is... we need the IETF, only it  needs to be real "standards group"
> with voting and clear processes for proving protocals are admitted and
> processsed towards standardization, fairly and equally. And that this is in
> my opinion, very different than the way they are operated now.
> They WG's within the IETF also need to take input from other places than its
> own constituency, like as in making specific changes or additions to enable
> management based changes to how the Internet is operated. This concept is
> also something very foreign to the IETF of today. They would tell you to get
> screwed and go away. That you were not competent to play in their world.
> My take is that they must be made to also take imput from the Internet's
> management teams as to what changes are needed in protocols existing today,
> rather than only from the would-be inventors. This is one of the key
> problems with the process of qualifying protocols for public use. Especially
> since there is no public qualification process in the IETF's operations
> model, nor in the IESG's nor in the IAB's  forqualifying anything for public
> use onthe global Internet before releasing it - Hmmmmmm.
> PSO's Directors
> -----------------
> It is also inappropriate for the Protocol Development groups to select ANY
> ICANN DIRECTOR Seats and this must be changed immediately. They also have no
> business making any determinations about what protocols are served on the
> Internet, or in the politics of the Internet, only in the technical fabric
> for implementing global policy and this means not the policy itself.
> If you need justification for this, realize that the problems with global
> SPAM and other Internet issues like DCMA are to a great deal exacerbated by
> the ubiquitous release of uncontrolled technology on the Internet.  For
> which the IETF/IESG and its IAB managers are the only ones responsible
> today.
> Restructuriung the IAB in particular
> ----------------------------------
> The IAB is also a real sore spot in and of itself. It currently fills a dual
> role of embracing the IESG's (its right hand) standards proposals and also
> making these ubiqtously available. My take is that it in particular needs to
> be neutered by its being split in half. What I am referring to is that the
> IAB needs to no longer make any decisions on the physical architecture of
> the Internet if it is to also continue to admisiter the creation of "Network
> Standards".
> Its primary function today, that of managing both the protocol development
> and that of determining the architecture and what is routed on the Internet
> is a problem since it creates a monopoly that is currently unmanagable. Thus
> the IAB can only be saved if it is split in half and the currently existing
> IAB satys to only the Standards Process. The other half, would become the
> political keeper of what is and is not routed on the Internet. It is this
> group which will own the treaties and agreements that will make up the
> Internet today.
> It also must be noted that in the reform presentation, ICANN has made no
> provision for this, other than divesting itself of the PSO's which in my
> book is further a problem and justification for restructuring ICANN. The
> existing management are not about to fix this problem, just amputate it and
> that is not right either.
> In Closing
> ----------
> Personally I think that if ICANN is to be resrtructured then it needs to be
> a global restructuring which means the UN will have to at some time get
> involved. In the mean time as an American, I can only work within the
> confines of what I have power to control and that is the ICANN's operations
> within the US. Although I also have the power to say that I dont want ICANN
> as it is today operating as an International Concern under the blanket of a
> Califronia Corporation. That ICANN becuause of the legal limitation of the
> DoC's authority, cannot represent the World and that only the UN has that
> authority.
> In North America
> ------------------
> As to what to do here in North America, I suggest that if it does want to
> represent all of North America, that the ICANN Board submit letters to the
> other countries in North America asking them to ratify a single NIC
> operating structure for all of North America, and if there is a need for a
> prototype for such an agreement, I suggest using the "uniform timebase
> treaty of 1999" through NORAMET. This created the first eTimebase for all of
> North America and oddly enough ICANN knows nothing of this, further making
> me ask about its competency as a whole to run a global Internet.
> TSG {:-{)
> > >

More snippage...

Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number:  972-244-3801 or 214-244-4827
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de