RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First

["Jkhan" <Jkhan@MetroMgr.com>]

I concurred whole heartedly with these points from Joanne Lane and
Richard Henderson, respectively:

Joanne Lane:

"... this election is about voting for a person's belief system, not
their physical location. ..."


Richard Henderson:

"... These elections should be seen as the volunteering of SERVANTS.  
People who offer to serve and facilitate and listen. The role of the  
elected executive should be to say to the "real leaders" in each  
region: What do YOU want? How can we support you? How can we help you  
to grow? The elected executive should FOLLOW the lead and the  
leadership of the people doing the real work at the local levels.

It is the people who organize themselves in various local communities  
and countries, and grow members, who will be the REAL leaders of our  
organization. It is those people who will establish true diversity.  
..."


Please forgive my skipping over the point that: We as candidates, we
should all be concerned with the Global constituency. My mistake was to
take that for granted.

Instead I went directly to: what we should be concerned and considering,
regarding the welfare of the Global Constituency, and what is happening
to the constituency as the internet evolves. (we should be concerned
about their experience)

As a candidate for Icann-at-Large, my greatest concern is that the
Internet Society does not repeat a pattern  of Colonialist expansion and
capitalist exploitation. Rather, I intended to modify this evolutionary
process, with the knowledge of where we (mankind) made mistakes before,
and institute new modifications where needed to make correction. These
corrections to be made even in the model of my own governments Policy
(US Constitution).

I would welcome the input of other scholars from other nations regarding
the benefits, detriments, omissions, and mistakes of their respective
Governmental model.

Together we can build a new model and implement it as our Virtual
Government.

James Khan


-----Original Message-----


From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:16 AM
To: j.oppenheimer@att.net; Erick Iriarte Ahon
Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First

I think after these elections, the air will clear on issues like this.
(And
I have no way of predicting how diverse the executive will be - that's
up to
members.)

What's needed is real and substantial outreach. I've said this again and
again. THAT'S how you guarantee real representation. My target for this
year
is 100,000 people, and that should only be the beginning.

At that point, you will begin to see our organisation really operating
locally and regionally, and leaders will as a matter of course be raised
up
from within different constituencies.

At this stage, the primary issue is not how we "interface" with ICANN,
but
how we grow numerically.

Let this be the focus, and everything else will follow.

I have only one goal and strategy for this organisation : to increase
membership so much, that ICANN and its overseers are forced to sit up
and
take note.

Of course, diversity is good! No-one would deny that.

But let's concentrate on growth in each region. That's the way to get
really
inclusive. This concept of an international internet community of
ordinary
users, with the right to take ownership of the way "their" Internet is
run,
is a HUGE concept - and the time is right. Let's stop thinking "top
down".
Whoever gets elected to the executive (and I really don't know who WILL
be),
the issue is local, diverse, "bottom up" organisation. Each region and
each
country needs to organise, to organise for growth, and the main role of
the
executive must not be as "rulers" but as "facilitators" to support each
of
hundreds of seed-groups to really grow and expand.

We need to be organising ourselves into local and regional action
groups,
regardless of who gets elected, and we need to start identifying target
groups and strategies for reaching them. These targets should extend
beyond
just a few geeks like us who are interested in the terminally-boring
machinations and labyrinths of ICANN. We need to be a broader
organisation
of internet users, with a clear message about ICANN and DNS
administration
near to the centre of our involvements. But we need to grow bigger than
that, and we need to grow from the local area. We need to consider
affiliation with the memberships of sympathetic organisations already in
existence; liaison with trade unions; liaisons with chambers of commerce
and
small business users; liaison with religious groups; liaison with
charities.
There are hundreds of potential interfaces in each country.

We should really be "competitive" NOT about who gets elected to the
executive of a tiny organisation; but about which local area can "grow"
fastest - we should almost see this as a challenge in a form of friendly
rivalry. One person says, Latin America MUST be represented. Agreed. But
I
say, Latin America must grow, and those members who live in Latin
America
are the main people responsible for getting that growth to happen.
Another
person says, Asia is under-represented. Agreed. But I say, let the
members
in Asia mobilise and grow so many members that nobody can ignore their
voice
(or their future voting power!)

To be honest, as an "outsider" to this opaque ICANN universe, I think we
can
get stifled by a narrowness of vision and by petty squabbles and
arguing.
Let's get this election behind us, but what only counts is what lies
ahead
of us.

And what I want is a bit of romance and excitement and adventure and
enthusiasm and idealism. Vision. And a real determination to make
something
NEW and dramatic that captures our own imaginations and captures the
public
imagination. These things are possible! Let's get excited! Let's really
grow
this group! Let's include everyone! What we have before us is the chance
to
develop a movement, not just an organisation. The scale of what can be
achieved is far bigger than ICANN. And the voice of the peoples must be
heard as they organise themselves!

We need to organise ourselves, locally, regionally, and we need to stop
debating and we need to just get on and do it!

These elections should be seen as the volunteering of SERVANTS. People
who
offer to serve and facilitate and listen. The role of the elected
executive
should be to say to the "real leaders" in each region: What do YOU want?
How
can we support you? How can we help you to grow? The elected executive
should FOLLOW the lead and the leadership of the people doing the real
work
at the local levels.

It is the people who organise themselves in various local communities
and
countries, and grow members, who will be the REAL leaders of our
organisation. It is those people who will establish true diversity.

This is a vision. This requires focussed practical work. This is
exciting
and possible.

Members, friends, make it happen!

Richard Henderson

----- Original Message -----
From: <j.oppenheimer@att.net>
To: Erick Iriarte Ahon <faia@amauta.rcp.net.pe>
Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 5:49 PM
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First Re: [atlarge-discuss]
Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement


> > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can
> do it more than a
> > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with
> you.
> >
>
> Look, to me this small group is a means to an end - that
> end being a democratic, representative global internet
> governance body (ICANN being its current placeholder),
> with full At Large voting and adequate board seats on
> that governance body.
>
> The make-up of this body, the one for which we're
> holding elections right now, should to my mind be those
> persons who can get us to the larger goal above so that
> we can have globally diverse representation on the board
> that ultmately matters - the global internet governance
> board.
>
> That's all I'm saying.  (If anyone understands my point
> and can explain it better, feel free to step in here.)
>
> J
>
> --
> Judith Oppenheimer
> http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> http://WhoSells800.com
> 212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > I'm try to understand you.
> >
> > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can do it more than
a
> > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with you.
> >
> > I don't want to sabotage anything, i want a real-representative
group.
> > Democracy is the possibility of anyone to say anything, and
participate
in
> > every space of discuss, if you put only a group, for "eficience",
this
is
> > not a representative group, this not a democratic group.
> >
> > Never i said you have a "conspiracy theory", and i'm not Fox Mulder
to
> > search X-Files, i'm try to defend my point of view, i believe in a
> > real-representative-global process. And believe in persons around
the
world
> > that work hard for the Internet in each country all the time.
> >
> > Don't close your mind only for the thing that you know, open your
mind
to
> > the world.
> >
> > Erick Iriarte Ahon from Latin America!! (a very interesting place in
this
> > world!!)
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:15 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > >Representation and accountability - At Large voting, and
> > >adequate seats on the Board - Election, not Selection --
> > >at the ICANN/whomever Global Internet Governance level --
> > >  is what it will take to obtain the goals of different
> > >regions and peoples.
> > >
> > >So if First Things First is "simplistic" then so be it.
> > >
> > >I do wonder if some peoples' interest in "geographic
> > >diversity" in this forum at this point and time, is a
> > >way of sabotaging this board, ie creating a potentially
> > >less effective board in the name of political
> > >correctness.  Sounds so good and works so well (for
> > >those who'd prefer this group fail.)
> > >
> > >Erick, fyi, I don't mean you.
> > >
> > >I'm not a conspiracy theorist.  I'm not known for
> > >mincing my words.  Nor am I known for erroneous
> > >speculation or predictions.
> > >
> > >In fact, sad to say I have a very good track record in
> > >these matters (sad because I'd prefer that what goes on,
> > >didn't.)
> > >
> > >J
> > >
> > >--
> > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > Excuse-me but you are very wrong in your comment.
> > > >
> > > > in special with this:
> > > >
> > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > >my vote.
> > > >
> > > > If you think only US people have the opportunity to defend the
Internet,
> > > > you have a little problem. And not only the "good lobby", make
> > > "expertise",
> > > > each person from anothers region work-hard for the Internet in
their
> > > > countries and regions.
> > > >
> > > > So, I defend Vittorio Bertola participation, and i know some
names
of your
> > > > list, dear Judith, and i hope James love , Milton Muller ,
Michael
> > > > Froomklin, and anothers think in a global internet, not only for
US
people.
> > > >
> > > > Please think the Internet, is very different in each region, in
some
place
> > > > like Peru close the digital divide, in anothers is usseful for
connect far
> > > > regions; and each experience is good and necessary to understand
that this
> > > > is a global process.
> > > >
> > > > Don't make this a US place, make a Global Place, the internet is
for
all,
> > > > not only for you.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe this is a "strong" and don't polite email, but please
think in
a
> > > > global internet.
> > > >
> > > > Y creo que quedo bastante claro, y para aquellos que puedan
entender
el
> > > > espaņol, seņores.. aqui no estamos para pelearnos por quien es
mejor
en su
> > > > pais, aqui estamos peleando por defender un Internet en el cual
todos
> > > > creemos, y decir que "muestren" a alguien idoneo en otras
regiones,
es
> > > > pensar fuera de sitio, es desconocer el esfuerzo de mucha gente,
noble,
> > > > buena, trabajadora, experta, y eso no es justo para nadie, todo
ser
humano
> > > > es igual a otro, no importa de donde venga, y no nos olvidemos
que
> > > > globalizar no es comer todos Mcdonalds, sino conocer y respetar
al
otro en
> > > > su individualidad compartiendo un mismo planeta.
> > > >
> > > > Erick Iriarte Ahon
> > > > Latinoamericann
> > > > http://latinoamericann.derecho.org.ar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 02:14 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > > > >Vittorio, I don't want to be argumentative with you and
> > > > >I recognize your sincerity and the time and effort
> > > > >you've invested here, but it is misleading to say that
> > > > >any measure of At Large has been retained by ICANN.
> > > > >
> > > > >At Large is a voting body with board seats.  Remove the
> > > > >votes and board seats, and you remove At Large.  Which
> > > > >is exactly what ICANN has done.
> > > > >
> > > > >As for geographic diversity, I'll take all the Jamie
> > > > >Loves, Ted Byfields, Karl Auerbachs, Michael Froomkins
> > > > >and Milt Muellers I can get, no matter their locations,
> > > > >because they have the integrity, desire, **history and
> > > > >expertise** to push ICANN (or whatever replaces it)
> > > > >toward the goal of democratic geographic representation.
> > > > >
> > > > >The same cannot be said of well-meaning but
> > > > >inexperienced persons merely because they come from
> > > > >diverse areas of the world.
> > > > >
> > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > >my vote.
> > > > >
> > > > >But anything less is counterproductive.
> > > > >
> > > > >J
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > > > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > > > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > > > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > > > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > > > MY CANDIDATION STATEMENT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am an Engineer, 27, and live in Turin, Italy; I am an
active
At
> > > > > > Large member since 2000, and I am presently the Chairman of
> > > > > > icannatlarge.com. I have been spending most of my time in
the
last
> > > > > > months actively working for our organization and defending
our
cause
> > > > > > in ICANN, submitting documents and proposals, and flying on
my
own
> > > > > > money to Bucharest, to talk with Board members and save some
space,
> > > > > > even if tiny, for the At Large in ICANN - in which we
succeeded.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe that the Internet is a vital resource for the
whole
world;
> > > > > > that its administration must be under the control of the
global
> > > > > > public; and that ICANN has been deliberately trying, in the
last
> > > > > > years, to put itself out of such control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This organization has to practically work to gain strength
and
> > > > > > credibility, so that its voice can get stronger and
stronger. We
have
> > > > > > to get help and pressure on ICANN to defend the original
plans
for At
> > > > > > Large elections of the Board. However, it is very likely
that
ICANN
> > > > > > will survive and preserve its power. This is why we must
keep a
> > > > > > dialogue open with all ICANN participants and get support
from
them
> > > > > > too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am worried by the excessive stress that many candidates
put on
> > > > > > interactions with the US Government, and by the high number
of
> > > > > > candidates from the US. This organization needs members and
leaders
> > > > > > from all the world; it must defend the diversity and the
independence
> > > > > > of the Internet, not call for governmental involvement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is still much to do, and we don't have many resources.
We
have
> > > > > > to follow the thin line of practical compromises that stands
between
> > > > > > the sterile dream of ICANN's sudden death, and submission to
ICANN's
> > > > > > bad plans. It's the hardest way, but the only one that is
guaranteed
> > > > > > to produce results in the long term.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So... I think that no one has spent more time and energy
than me
for
> > > > > > this organization, and I really want to continue working and
> > > > > > contributing my skills. This is why, I think, I deserve your
vote
> > > > > > again. Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MORE INFORMATION
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My statement for the first elections of icannatlarge.com
(with
more
> > > > > > information on myself and my ideas)
> > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=455#455
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My submissions to ICANN's Reform Committee:
> > > > > > (1)
> > > > > > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/general/pdf00011.pdf
> > > > > > (2)
> > > > > >
http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/structure/pdf00000.pdf
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My rough proposals for the ALAC
> > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00408.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Bylaws proposals for icannatlarge.com
> > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The atlarge-panel list (to review my acts as current panel
member)
> > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My proposal for At Large organization at Nov 2000 ICANN
meeting
> > > > > > http://www.icannmembers.org/Props/prop-7.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My candidation statement for year 2000 At Large elections
> > > > > > http://icann.bertola.eu.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You could also browse through my postings on the
atlarge-discuss
> > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/), DNSO GA
> > > > > > (http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html) and icann-europe
> > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/icann-europe/) lists (unfortunately no
per-author
> > > > > > search is available).
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a]
> > > bertola.eu.org]<------
> > > > > > ----------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/
> > > <--------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > >
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