RE: [atlarge-discuss] Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement

["Bruce Young" <Bruce@barelyadequate.info>]

I'm a techie, not a social science major, but I think I uderstand where
James is coming from here: diversity can be a great strength, rather than a
debilitating weakness if everyone chooses to respect others' right to be
different in many respects from themselves.

The argument has been made that, since, as you note, many of the world's
people don't have computers, we should concentrate on those that do.
However, I feel that we need to build our processes to accomodate all
commmers, now and in the future, because someday those without computers
will likely have them!  But to do that, we need to have a core membership
that, from the beginning, represents as many cultures as possible.  And even
though some groups may be poorly represented, we need to reach out to the
representatives that we *do* have and enlist their aid in making our
organizations processes as inviting to their cultures as possible.

Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.com and Join ICANN At Large!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jkhan [mailto:Jkhan@MetroMgr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:34 AM
To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement




-----Original Message-----
From: Jkhan [mailto:Jkhan@MetroMgr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:43 AM
To: 'Erick Iriarte Ahon'
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement

Please, we are all working to resolve the same problem, by working from
our backgrounds and what God gave us. I can not provide you with a full
body of knowledge here, certainly not within an email, but in regards to
the foregoing string of comments, please find my opinion of where this
is going. – James Khan
_______________________________________________________________________

The challenge here is the theorizing of contemporary indigenous peoples
- their communities, identities, and politics - as they become more and
more integrated into national and global contexts.

The analytical challenge here is to understand how indigenous societies
retain their distinctive qualities while becoming integrated into larger
social units.  The corresponding practical problem is to ensure that the
creation of difference and integration do not mark indigenous peoples as
inferior but constitute a source of power that can be used in their
defense.

One way to see the cultural dimensions (Depth in terms of Digital
Divide) of this period of postdevelopement is to regard it as situated
historically with in what is called "late capitalism" taking this term
to critique the post-modernist abandonment of political economy and also
identify something that is truly distinctive about contemporary society
and culture.  A notable feature of this period of late capitalism is the
collapse of the distinction between "traditional" and "modern" society
[pre-internet and post-internet] , this had been a defining feature of
modernist theories of culture and history.

What we are concerned here is with, how the postdevelopmental subject
(Person) is constructed and, in particular, how postdevelopmental
indigenous subjects are and might be constructed.  The multiple and
diverse subject positions that people in contemporary society occupy is
provocative. Social identity is highly fragmented, making class
consciousness improbable.

It may be a result of our own historical myopia, but it appears the
construction of ethnicity by contemporary indígenas has become and is
becoming more of a conscious, intentional activity than before.  Thus
instead of absorbing their ethnicity with their mother's milk, the new
indígenas are elaborating it as political and cultural projects.  This
intentional construction is in part a reaction to subject fragmentation
(alienation in every sense of the term), which it seeks to mitigate, and
is carried out, per Lévi-Strauss, as a sort of bricolage: the inventive
selecting and patching of bits and pieces of a new/old personal and
collective identity.  This bricolage (Le Bohemian Style) is not informed
solely by a desire of the fragmented subject seeking integration and
identity but instead takes place within a dialectic of labeling by
sectors in the dominant group such that they too participate in this
"invention."   Social scientist in general and especially anthropologist
have been predisposed to study down and must now attend more to the
creation of indígena ethnicity as a process of image formation occurring
also within the dominant sectors of society (the media, nongovernmental
organizations, state agencies, internet, etc...) generating new symbols
and images of the indígena for consumption by indígenas , who enact and
embody them for further recycling.

Thus, the essence of articulation within the capitalist formation is
provided and the creation and perpetuation of qualitative differences
are sustained. In a general sense capitalism does this internally by
differentiating capitalist from proletarian.  ...
________________________________________________________________________
___

 Now in laymen’s terms:
________________________________________________________________________
___


THINK ABOUT IT….

IF we could shrink the Earth’s population to a village of 100 persons,
with all the existing human ratios remaining the same, it would look
like this:

51 would be female and 49 would be male

70 would be non-white, 30 white

70 would be non-Christian

1 would be near death, 1 would be near birth

Only, 1 would have a college education

No one would own a computer

80 would live in substandard housing

70 would be unable to read

50 would suffer from malnutrition

50% of the wealth would be in the hands of six persons
and all six would be from the United States

________________________________________________________________________
___

When one considered our world from such an incredibly compressed
perspective,
The need for tolerance, understanding and genuine Concern for other
becomes glaringly apparent.

“Determine the things that can and shall be done, and then we shall find
the way.” - Abraham Lincoln



-----Original Message-----
From: Erick Iriarte Ahon [mailto:faia@amauta.rcp.net.pe]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:04 AM
To: j.oppenheimer@att.net; Vittorio Bertola
Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement

Excuse-me but you are very wrong in your comment.

in special with this:

>Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
>candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
>expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
>my vote.

If you think only US people have the opportunity to defend the Internet,

you have a little problem. And not only the "good lobby", make
"expertise",
each person from anothers region work-hard for the Internet in their
countries and regions.

So, I defend Vittorio Bertola participation, and i know some names of
your
list, dear Judith, and i hope James love , Milton Muller , Michael
Froomklin, and anothers think in a global internet, not only for US
people.

Please think the Internet, is very different in each region, in some
place
like Peru close the digital divide, in anothers is usseful for connect
far
regions; and each experience is good and necessary to understand that
this
is a global process.

Don't make this a US place, make a Global Place, the internet is for
all,
not only for you.

Maybe this is a "strong" and don't polite email, but please think in a
global internet.

Y creo que quedo bastante claro, y para aquellos que puedan entender el
español, señores.. aqui no estamos para pelearnos por quien es mejor en
su
pais, aqui estamos peleando por defender un Internet en el cual todos
creemos, y decir que "muestren" a alguien idoneo en otras regiones, es
pensar fuera de sitio, es desconocer el esfuerzo de mucha gente, noble,
buena, trabajadora, experta, y eso no es justo para nadie, todo ser
humano
es igual a otro, no importa de donde venga, y no nos olvidemos que
globalizar no es comer todos Mcdonalds, sino conocer y respetar al otro
en
su individualidad compartiendo un mismo planeta.

Erick Iriarte Ahon
Latinoamericann
http://latinoamericann.derecho.org.ar


At 02:14 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
>Vittorio, I don't want to be argumentative with you and
>I recognize your sincerity and the time and effort
>you've invested here, but it is misleading to say that
>any measure of At Large has been retained by ICANN.
>
>At Large is a voting body with board seats.  Remove the
>votes and board seats, and you remove At Large.  Which
>is exactly what ICANN has done.
>
>As for geographic diversity, I'll take all the Jamie
>Loves, Ted Byfields, Karl Auerbachs, Michael Froomkins
>and Milt Muellers I can get, no matter their locations,
>because they have the integrity, desire, **history and
>expertise** to push ICANN (or whatever replaces it)
>toward the goal of democratic geographic representation.
>
>The same cannot be said of well-meaning but
>inexperienced persons merely because they come from
>diverse areas of the world.
>
>Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
>candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
>expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
>my vote.
>
>But anything less is counterproductive.
>
>J
>
>--
>Judith Oppenheimer
>http://JudithOppenheimer.com
>http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
>http://WhoSells800.com
>212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > MY CANDIDATION STATEMENT
> >
> > I am an Engineer, 27, and live in Turin, Italy; I am an active At
> > Large member since 2000, and I am presently the Chairman of
> > icannatlarge.com. I have been spending most of my time in the last
> > months actively working for our organization and defending our cause
> > in ICANN, submitting documents and proposals, and flying on my own
> > money to Bucharest, to talk with Board members and save some space,
> > even if tiny, for the At Large in ICANN - in which we succeeded.
> >
> > I believe that the Internet is a vital resource for the whole world;
> > that its administration must be under the control of the global
> > public; and that ICANN has been deliberately trying, in the last
> > years, to put itself out of such control.
> >
> > This organization has to practically work to gain strength and
> > credibility, so that its voice can get stronger and stronger. We
have
> > to get help and pressure on ICANN to defend the original plans for
At
> > Large elections of the Board. However, it is very likely that ICANN
> > will survive and preserve its power. This is why we must keep a
> > dialogue open with all ICANN participants and get support from them
> > too.
> >
> > I am worried by the excessive stress that many candidates put on
> > interactions with the US Government, and by the high number of
> > candidates from the US. This organization needs members and leaders
> > from all the world; it must defend the diversity and the
independence
> > of the Internet, not call for governmental involvement.
> >
> > There is still much to do, and we don't have many resources. We have
> > to follow the thin line of practical compromises that stands between
> > the sterile dream of ICANN's sudden death, and submission to ICANN's
> > bad plans. It's the hardest way, but the only one that is guaranteed
> > to produce results in the long term.
> >
> > So... I think that no one has spent more time and energy than me for
> > this organization, and I really want to continue working and
> > contributing my skills. This is why, I think, I deserve your vote
> > again. Thanks!
> >
> >
> > MORE INFORMATION
> >
> > My statement for the first elections of icannatlarge.com (with more
> > information on myself and my ideas)
> > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=455#455
> >
> > My submissions to ICANN's Reform Committee:
> > (1)
> > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/general/pdf00011.pdf
> > (2)
> > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/structure/pdf00000.pdf
> >
> > My rough proposals for the ALAC
> > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00408.html
> >
> > My Bylaws proposals for icannatlarge.com
> > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36
> >
> > The atlarge-panel list (to review my acts as current panel member)
> > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/
> >
> > My proposal for At Large organization at Nov 2000 ICANN meeting
> > http://www.icannmembers.org/Props/prop-7.html
> >
> > My candidation statement for year 2000 At Large elections
> > http://icann.bertola.eu.org/
> >
> > You could also browse through my postings on the atlarge-discuss
> > (http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/), DNSO GA
> > (http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html) and icann-europe
> > (http://www.fitug.de/icann-europe/) lists (unfortunately no
per-author
> > search is available).
> > --
> > vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a]
bertola.eu.org]<------
> > ----------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/
<--------------------------
> >
> >
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