Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First

["todd glassey" <todd.glassey@worldnet.att.net>]

The US Only Domain Owner/Operators Association concept is a strong one since
we have both the issues of the "ICANN Failings" to deal with, but also that
of the evolving legal groundwork here in the states as well.

I suggest that what this At Large group should be is a collective of
"regional associations", since while there are key issues with the One World
concept of ICANN, more and more the Internet is changing into
compartmentalized networks.

The Network Operators are the bottom of this  totem pole but the reality is
that what used to be a just plain routed infrastructure is now becoming
bridged at the NAT level. This means the virtual single fabric of the old
ARPANET based Internet Model is changing whether anyone like it or not. The
concept that this is one network and that there are no eBorders is also
untrue and more and more becoming the sore point  or fly in the ointment so
to speak.

What this means is that while it is critical to represent the totality of
the world domain owners, that the regional issues are also critical and
their being only the one General At Large group and its being only composed
of individuals, makes the participation of the regional associations
impossible to and into the larger AL constituency.

The bottom line is that the regional associations are a better way of giving
control back to the people from what the charter and Board of ICANN have
stolen.

Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
To: <j.oppenheimer@att.net>; "Erick Iriarte Ahon" <faia@amauta.rcp.net.pe>
Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First


> I think after these elections, the air will clear on issues like this.
(And
> I have no way of predicting how diverse the executive will be - that's up
to
> members.)
>
> What's needed is real and substantial outreach. I've said this again and
> again. THAT'S how you guarantee real representation. My target for this
year
> is 100,000 people, and that should only be the beginning.
>
> At that point, you will begin to see our organisation really operating
> locally and regionally, and leaders will as a matter of course be raised
up
> from within different constituencies.
>
> At this stage, the primary issue is not how we "interface" with ICANN, but
> how we grow numerically.
>
> Let this be the focus, and everything else will follow.
>
> I have only one goal and strategy for this organisation : to increase
> membership so much, that ICANN and its overseers are forced to sit up and
> take note.
>
> Of course, diversity is good! No-one would deny that.
>
> But let's concentrate on growth in each region. That's the way to get
really
> inclusive. This concept of an international internet community of ordinary
> users, with the right to take ownership of the way "their" Internet is
run,
> is a HUGE concept - and the time is right. Let's stop thinking "top down".
> Whoever gets elected to the executive (and I really don't know who WILL
be),
> the issue is local, diverse, "bottom up" organisation. Each region and
each
> country needs to organise, to organise for growth, and the main role of
the
> executive must not be as "rulers" but as "facilitators" to support each of
> hundreds of seed-groups to really grow and expand.
>
> We need to be organising ourselves into local and regional action groups,
> regardless of who gets elected, and we need to start identifying target
> groups and strategies for reaching them. These targets should extend
beyond
> just a few geeks like us who are interested in the terminally-boring
> machinations and labyrinths of ICANN. We need to be a broader organisation
> of internet users, with a clear message about ICANN and DNS administration
> near to the centre of our involvements. But we need to grow bigger than
> that, and we need to grow from the local area. We need to consider
> affiliation with the memberships of sympathetic organisations already in
> existence; liaison with trade unions; liaisons with chambers of commerce
and
> small business users; liaison with religious groups; liaison with
charities.
> There are hundreds of potential interfaces in each country.
>
> We should really be "competitive" NOT about who gets elected to the
> executive of a tiny organisation; but about which local area can "grow"
> fastest - we should almost see this as a challenge in a form of friendly
> rivalry. One person says, Latin America MUST be represented. Agreed. But I
> say, Latin America must grow, and those members who live in Latin America
> are the main people responsible for getting that growth to happen. Another
> person says, Asia is under-represented. Agreed. But I say, let the members
> in Asia mobilise and grow so many members that nobody can ignore their
voice
> (or their future voting power!)
>
> To be honest, as an "outsider" to this opaque ICANN universe, I think we
can
> get stifled by a narrowness of vision and by petty squabbles and arguing.
> Let's get this election behind us, but what only counts is what lies ahead
> of us.
>
> And what I want is a bit of romance and excitement and adventure and
> enthusiasm and idealism. Vision. And a real determination to make
something
> NEW and dramatic that captures our own imaginations and captures the
public
> imagination. These things are possible! Let's get excited! Let's really
grow
> this group! Let's include everyone! What we have before us is the chance
to
> develop a movement, not just an organisation. The scale of what can be
> achieved is far bigger than ICANN. And the voice of the peoples must be
> heard as they organise themselves!
>
> We need to organise ourselves, locally, regionally, and we need to stop
> debating and we need to just get on and do it!
>
> These elections should be seen as the volunteering of SERVANTS. People who
> offer to serve and facilitate and listen. The role of the elected
executive
> should be to say to the "real leaders" in each region: What do YOU want?
How
> can we support you? How can we help you to grow? The elected executive
> should FOLLOW the lead and the leadership of the people doing the real
work
> at the local levels.
>
> It is the people who organise themselves in various local communities and
> countries, and grow members, who will be the REAL leaders of our
> organisation. It is those people who will establish true diversity.
>
> This is a vision. This requires focussed practical work. This is exciting
> and possible.
>
> Members, friends, make it happen!
>
> Richard Henderson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <j.oppenheimer@att.net>
> To: Erick Iriarte Ahon <faia@amauta.rcp.net.pe>
> Cc: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 5:49 PM
> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: First Things First Re: [atlarge-discuss]
> Vittorio Bertola's candidation statement
>
>
> > > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can
> > do it more than a
> > > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with
> > you.
> > >
> >
> > Look, to me this small group is a means to an end - that
> > end being a democratic, representative global internet
> > governance body (ICANN being its current placeholder),
> > with full At Large voting and adequate board seats on
> > that governance body.
> >
> > The make-up of this body, the one for which we're
> > holding elections right now, should to my mind be those
> > persons who can get us to the larger goal above so that
> > we can have globally diverse representation on the board
> > that ultmately matters - the global internet governance
> > board.
> >
> > That's all I'm saying.  (If anyone understands my point
> > and can explain it better, feel free to step in here.)
> >
> > J
> >
> > --
> > Judith Oppenheimer
> > http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > http://WhoSells800.com
> > 212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > I'm try to understand you.
> > >
> > > If you want to say, the a few group of US people can do it more than a
> > > diversity and representantive group, i'm desagree with you.
> > >
> > > I don't want to sabotage anything, i want a real-representative group.
> > > Democracy is the possibility of anyone to say anything, and
participate
> in
> > > every space of discuss, if you put only a group, for "eficience", this
> is
> > > not a representative group, this not a democratic group.
> > >
> > > Never i said you have a "conspiracy theory", and i'm not Fox Mulder to
> > > search X-Files, i'm try to defend my point of view, i believe in a
> > > real-representative-global process. And believe in persons around the
> world
> > > that work hard for the Internet in each country all the time.
> > >
> > > Don't close your mind only for the thing that you know, open your mind
> to
> > > the world.
> > >
> > > Erick Iriarte Ahon from Latin America!! (a very interesting place in
> this
> > > world!!)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 04:15 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > > >Representation and accountability - At Large voting, and
> > > >adequate seats on the Board - Election, not Selection --
> > > >at the ICANN/whomever Global Internet Governance level --
> > > >  is what it will take to obtain the goals of different
> > > >regions and peoples.
> > > >
> > > >So if First Things First is "simplistic" then so be it.
> > > >
> > > >I do wonder if some peoples' interest in "geographic
> > > >diversity" in this forum at this point and time, is a
> > > >way of sabotaging this board, ie creating a potentially
> > > >less effective board in the name of political
> > > >correctness.  Sounds so good and works so well (for
> > > >those who'd prefer this group fail.)
> > > >
> > > >Erick, fyi, I don't mean you.
> > > >
> > > >I'm not a conspiracy theorist.  I'm not known for
> > > >mincing my words.  Nor am I known for erroneous
> > > >speculation or predictions.
> > > >
> > > >In fact, sad to say I have a very good track record in
> > > >these matters (sad because I'd prefer that what goes on,
> > > >didn't.)
> > > >
> > > >J
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > > Excuse-me but you are very wrong in your comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > in special with this:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > > >my vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you think only US people have the opportunity to defend the
> Internet,
> > > > > you have a little problem. And not only the "good lobby", make
> > > > "expertise",
> > > > > each person from anothers region work-hard for the Internet in
their
> > > > > countries and regions.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I defend Vittorio Bertola participation, and i know some names
> of your
> > > > > list, dear Judith, and i hope James love , Milton Muller , Michael
> > > > > Froomklin, and anothers think in a global internet, not only for
US
> people.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please think the Internet, is very different in each region, in
some
> place
> > > > > like Peru close the digital divide, in anothers is usseful for
> connect far
> > > > > regions; and each experience is good and necessary to understand
> that this
> > > > > is a global process.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't make this a US place, make a Global Place, the internet is
for
> all,
> > > > > not only for you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe this is a "strong" and don't polite email, but please think
in
> a
> > > > > global internet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Y creo que quedo bastante claro, y para aquellos que puedan
entender
> el
> > > > > espaņol, seņores.. aqui no estamos para pelearnos por quien es
mejor
> en su
> > > > > pais, aqui estamos peleando por defender un Internet en el cual
> todos
> > > > > creemos, y decir que "muestren" a alguien idoneo en otras
regiones,
> es
> > > > > pensar fuera de sitio, es desconocer el esfuerzo de mucha gente,
> noble,
> > > > > buena, trabajadora, experta, y eso no es justo para nadie, todo
ser
> humano
> > > > > es igual a otro, no importa de donde venga, y no nos olvidemos que
> > > > > globalizar no es comer todos Mcdonalds, sino conocer y respetar al
> otro en
> > > > > su individualidad compartiendo un mismo planeta.
> > > > >
> > > > > Erick Iriarte Ahon
> > > > > Latinoamericann
> > > > > http://latinoamericann.derecho.org.ar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 02:14 p.m. 24/07/2002 +0000, j.oppenheimer@att.net wrote:
> > > > > >Vittorio, I don't want to be argumentative with you and
> > > > > >I recognize your sincerity and the time and effort
> > > > > >you've invested here, but it is misleading to say that
> > > > > >any measure of At Large has been retained by ICANN.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >At Large is a voting body with board seats.  Remove the
> > > > > >votes and board seats, and you remove At Large.  Which
> > > > > >is exactly what ICANN has done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >As for geographic diversity, I'll take all the Jamie
> > > > > >Loves, Ted Byfields, Karl Auerbachs, Michael Froomkins
> > > > > >and Milt Muellers I can get, no matter their locations,
> > > > > >because they have the integrity, desire, **history and
> > > > > >expertise** to push ICANN (or whatever replaces it)
> > > > > >toward the goal of democratic geographic representation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The same cannot be said of well-meaning but
> > > > > >inexperienced persons merely because they come from
> > > > > >diverse areas of the world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Show me a European, Asian, African, South American, etc.
> > > > > >candidate who can match intent, integrity, wits and
> > > > > >expertise with the folks mentioned above and they've got
> > > > > >my vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >But anything less is counterproductive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >J
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >Judith Oppenheimer
> > > > > >http://JudithOppenheimer.com
> > > > > >http://ICBTollFreeNews.com
> > > > > >http://WhoSells800.com
> > > > > >212 684-7210, 1 800 The Expert
> > > > > > > MY CANDIDATION STATEMENT
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am an Engineer, 27, and live in Turin, Italy; I am an active
> At
> > > > > > > Large member since 2000, and I am presently the Chairman of
> > > > > > > icannatlarge.com. I have been spending most of my time in the
> last
> > > > > > > months actively working for our organization and defending our
> cause
> > > > > > > in ICANN, submitting documents and proposals, and flying on my
> own
> > > > > > > money to Bucharest, to talk with Board members and save some
> space,
> > > > > > > even if tiny, for the At Large in ICANN - in which we
succeeded.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I believe that the Internet is a vital resource for the whole
> world;
> > > > > > > that its administration must be under the control of the
global
> > > > > > > public; and that ICANN has been deliberately trying, in the
last
> > > > > > > years, to put itself out of such control.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This organization has to practically work to gain strength and
> > > > > > > credibility, so that its voice can get stronger and stronger.
We
> have
> > > > > > > to get help and pressure on ICANN to defend the original plans
> for At
> > > > > > > Large elections of the Board. However, it is very likely that
> ICANN
> > > > > > > will survive and preserve its power. This is why we must keep
a
> > > > > > > dialogue open with all ICANN participants and get support from
> them
> > > > > > > too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am worried by the excessive stress that many candidates put
on
> > > > > > > interactions with the US Government, and by the high number of
> > > > > > > candidates from the US. This organization needs members and
> leaders
> > > > > > > from all the world; it must defend the diversity and the
> independence
> > > > > > > of the Internet, not call for governmental involvement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is still much to do, and we don't have many resources.
We
> have
> > > > > > > to follow the thin line of practical compromises that stands
> between
> > > > > > > the sterile dream of ICANN's sudden death, and submission to
> ICANN's
> > > > > > > bad plans. It's the hardest way, but the only one that is
> guaranteed
> > > > > > > to produce results in the long term.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So... I think that no one has spent more time and energy than
me
> for
> > > > > > > this organization, and I really want to continue working and
> > > > > > > contributing my skills. This is why, I think, I deserve your
> vote
> > > > > > > again. Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > MORE INFORMATION
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My statement for the first elections of icannatlarge.com (with
> more
> > > > > > > information on myself and my ideas)
> > > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=455#455
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My submissions to ICANN's Reform Committee:
> > > > > > > (1)
> > > > > > > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/general/pdf00011.pdf
> > > > > > > (2)
> > > > > > > http://forum.icann.org/reform-comments/structure/pdf00000.pdf
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My rough proposals for the ALAC
> > > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0207/msg00408.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Bylaws proposals for icannatlarge.com
> > > > > > > http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The atlarge-panel list (to review my acts as current panel
> member)
> > > > > > > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My proposal for At Large organization at Nov 2000 ICANN
meeting
> > > > > > > http://www.icannmembers.org/Props/prop-7.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My candidation statement for year 2000 At Large elections
> > > > > > > http://icann.bertola.eu.org/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You could also browse through my postings on the
atlarge-discuss
> > > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/), DNSO GA
> > > > > > > (http://www.dnso.org/dnso/gaarchives.html) and icann-europe
> > > > > > > (http://www.fitug.de/icann-europe/) lists (unfortunately no
> per-author
> > > > > > > search is available).
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > vb.               [Vittorio Bertola - v.bertola [a]
> > > > bertola.eu.org]<------
> > > > > > > ----------------------> http://bertola.eu.org/
> > > > <--------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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