Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: [aloc] Re: Fw: [atlarge-discuss] ALOC Draft 3.0

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Hans and all stakeholders or other interested parties,

  Excuse me Hans, but what is or how do you accurately define
a "Rough Consensus"?

Hans Klein wrote:

> [I am just catching up on Email...]
>
> Esther,
>
> As far as I know, the only dissent has come from our "facilitator".  As
> someone in a support staff position, I don't believe that her role includes
> making substantive dissents from the committee's work.
>
> Have you dissented?  Otherwise, the ALOC Draft 3.0 seems to enjoy a rough
> consensus.  (Numerous expressions of support, little/no dissent.)
>
> Hans
>
> At 03:44 PM 7/27/2002 -0400, Esther Dyson wrote:
> >at the point when any document is posted or forwarded formally, we should
> >definitely note the existence of dissenting opinions, with links to the
> >various member groups' dissenting statements.
> >
> >Esther
> >
> >At 06:21 AM 7/26/2002, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Denise Michel ALSC wrote:
> >>
> >> > I must correct your inaccuracies, Hans.
> >> >
> >> > I am, along with the other members of the ERC "assistance group,"
> >> > responsible for crafting a substantive draft ALAC proposal.
> >> >
> >> > "Version 3.0" is *not* "a team product of the ALOC" and does *not*
> >> > "represent the consensus of the ALOC."
> >> >
> >> >   -  I wrote the outline as a starting point for discussion;
> >> >   -  an overwhelming majority of ALOC members have not commented on the
> >> > text, let alone "approved" it;
> >>
> >>That's because we DO NOT APROVE!
> >>
> >>You and E. Dyson are simply railroading your version of the proposal through
> >>without consideration for the REALITY of the consensus among the ALOC which
> >>Hans' Draft 3.0 rightly points out.  The patsies you list as part of your
> >>latest
> >>cabal are predictably handpicked.  ICANNAtLarge.com MUST NOT be listed as any
> >>kind of support for whatever document you produce and sbmit to the ERC.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> >>         ICANNAtLarge.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >   -  I expressed my disapproval to your additions;
> >> >   -  the text simply represents a starting point for discussions to
> >> which a
> >> > majority of assistance group members have not yet had a chance to
> >> contribute
> >> > on ALAC issues.
> >> >
> >> > The assistance group is not "replacing the ALOC as the voice of the
> >> user" as
> >> > you melodramatically suggested.  It's a temporary group that will draft a
> >> > proposal for an ALAC for ERC/public consideration.
> >> >
> >> > Denise
> >> >
> >> > Denise Michel
> >> > coordinator@at-large.org
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Hans Klein" <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>
> >> > To: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 10:49 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] ALOC Draft 3.0
> >> >
> >> > Denise works with us to facilitate our processes.  Substantive work is the
> >> > responsibility of the ALOC members.
> >> >
> >> > Version 3.0 is a team product of the ALOC and enjoys the support of
> >> > numerous ALOC members.  Indeed, I don't recall any expressions of
> >> > disapproval. I believe it represents the consensus of the ALOC.
> >> >
> >> > If I interpret Denise's comments correctly, the newly created "ERC
> >> > assistance group" (from which Sotiris Sotiropoulos and I were excluded)
> >> > will soon replace the ALOC as the "voice of the user."  Sigh!
> >> >
> >> > Hans
> >> >
> >> > At 09:34 AM 7/25/2002 -0700, Denise Michel ALSC wrote:
> >> > >This is *not* the "latest version" or "Version 3.0" or a "Proposed Final
> >> > >Draft" of the "At-Large Organizing Committee (ALOC)
> >> > >Submission to the..ERC..On the Design of An At Large Advisory Committee
> >> > >(ALAC)."  Hans Klein added these titles, along with a "Preamble" and
> >> "Part
> >> > >I" to an *outline of approaches/issues* that needed to be considered by
> >> > >the ERC's "assistance group" in order to draft implementation details for
> >> > >an ALAC.  Any ideas this list's participants have on how to structure an
> >> > >ALAC, of course, are welcome.  However, the point of this limited ERC
> >> > >assistance group is to quickly provide *detailed recommendations* on an
> >> > >ALAC for public (your) consideration.
> >> > >
> >> > >Hans may wish to slap some rhetoric on an outline and call it a potential
> >> > >implementation plan, but that does not make it so. When the assistance
> >> > >group issues its submission to the ERC, it will be a detailed
> >> proposal for
> >> > >establishing an ALAC on which anyone interested can comment, change,
> >> build
> >> > >upon.  It will not be, nor is it intended to be, a reflection of the
> >> views
> >> > >of all ALOC member organizations or even all of the ALOC members
> >> > themselves.
> >> > >
> >> > >Denise
> >> > >
> >> > >Denise Michel
> >> > >coordinator@at-large.org
> >> > >
> >> > >----- Original Message -----
> >> > >From: "Sotiris Sotiropoulos" <sotiris@hermesnetwork.com>
> >> > >Cc: "discuss" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> >> > >Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 4:37 AM
> >> > >Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] ALOC Draft 3.0
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >Hans Klein wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Sotiris,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The draft that you posted is out of date, I believe.  There have been
> >> > three
> >> > > > revisions since then (2.0, 2.1, 3.0).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The biggest change was to add a "Part I" that restates the ALAC's
> >> > support
> >> > > > for election of At Large directors.
> >> > >
> >> > >Hans,
> >> > >
> >> > >Thanks for the heads up!  Apologies to all.  Below is the latest version.
> >> > >Comments are welcome and will be submitted.
> >> > >
> >> > >------
> >> > >VERSION 3.0 (Proposed Final Draft)
> >> > >
> >> > >At-Large Organizing Committee (ALOC)
> >> > >Submission to the ICANN Evolution & Reform Committee On the Design of
> >> An At
> >> > >Large Advisory Committee (ALAC)
> >> > >
> >> > >25 July 2002
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >PREAMBLE
> >> > >
> >> > >The At Large Organizing Committee (ALOC) was set up by ICANN to guide and
> >> > >encourage bottom-up efforts to organize At-Large mechanisms for
> >> meaningful,
> >> > >informed participation in ICANN.  The membership list of the ALOC can be
> >> > seen
> >> > >at: http://www.at-large.org/at-large-members.htm
> >> > >
> >> > >This interim report offers recommendations on the organization of an At
> >> > Large
> >> > >Advisory Committee (ALAC).
> >> > >
> >> > >The ALOC finds itself faced with an inherent contradiction, and therefore
> >> > the
> >> > >ALOC comments are organized in two parts.  On the one hand, the ALOC
> >> offers
> >> > >comments on how to implement certain features of the Evolution and Reform
> >> > >Committee's Blueprint for ICANN reform.   However, the ALOC does not
> >> > support
> >> > >all portions of that Blueprint, especially the elimination of the elected
> >> > At
> >> > >Large directors.  There is widespread support in the ICANN community for
> >> > >elected At Large Directors.  Pending final resolution of the election
> >> > issue,
> >> > >however, the ALOC offers advice on what the Evolution and Reform
> >> Committee
> >> > >should do and how it should operate
> >> > >within ICANN now.
> >> > >
> >> > >With ICANN's authority over the DNS up for review and renewal in
> >> September
> >> > >2002, we hope that a way can be found to preserve the representation of
> >> > users.
> >> > >User representation will ensure a foundation of legitimacy for ICANN to
> >> > enable
> >> > >it to survive and prosper as an institution.
> >> > >
> >> > >We urge the ERC and ICANN to proceed on these issues along a
> >> timetable that
> >> > >permits sufficient time for the At-Large Structures within ALOC to engage
> >> > in
> >> > >genuine deliberation with their constituencies on these important issues.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >PART I
> >> > >SUPPORT FOR THE TERMS OF INTERNET PRIVATIZATION
> >> > >
> >> > >The At Large Organizing Committee (ALOC) supports the original terms of
> >> > >Internet privatization, most notably the principle of balanced
> >> > representation
> >> > >of users and industry experts on the ICANN board.  The ALOC also supports
> >> > the
> >> > >implementation mechanisms developed for At Large users, most notably the
> >> > >direct
> >> > >elections of directors.
> >> > >
> >> > >This support has been articulated in numerous documents, including:
> >> > >? Esther Dyson's letter of 6 November 1998 to the US Dept. of Commerce on
> >> > >behalf of the ICANN board.  That letter noted that the ICANN Board has an
> >> > >unconditional mandate to create a membership structure that will
> >> elect nine
> >> > At
> >> > >Large
> >> Directors.   (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/ICANN111098.htm)
> >> > >? The NGO and Academic ICANN Study, which concluded that ICANN should
> >> > retain
> >> > >balanced representation of users and industry experts on its board and
> >> > should
> >> > >continue to employ global elections. (http://www.naisproject.org/)
> >> > >? ICANN's At Large Study Commission, which found that ICANN's policies
> >> > affect
> >> > >users and that users should be elected to the ICANN board.
> >> > >(http://www.atlargestudy.org/)
> >> > >
> >> > >The ALOC therefore prefers that ICANN not implement the
> >> recommendations in
> >> > the
> >> > >ERC Blueprint and instead work to implement the conditions of
> >> > privatization.
> >> > >Only an ICANN whose legitimacy is beyond dispute can work in the long
> >> run.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >PART II
> >> > >WORKING WITHIN THE ERC BLUEPRINT
> >> > >
> >> > >Whether the ERC blueprint will be the basis for a new ICANN will not be
> >> > known
> >> > >before the end of this year.  Despite the reservations about that
> >> > >Blueprint, we
> >> > >offer here some suggestions about how its terms might be implemented.
> >> > >
> >> > >1. Background
> >> > >a. Need for At-Large: ICANN needs a mechanism for individual users'
> >> > >participation in ICANN.  This provides a formalized role in the policy
> >> > >development process for users that ensures that user views are seriously
> >> > taken
> >> > >into account.
> >> > >2. Role and Responsibilities
> >> > >a. ALAC is a standing advisory committee of the Board
> >> > >b. Provides advice and guidance to the Board and to other organizations
> >> > within
> >> > >ICANN on the needs of, and the impact of proposed policies on, the
> >> > Internet's
> >> > >individual users ­ addressing pending issues and introducing new issues
> >> > >relevant to Internet issues and within ICANN's purview.
> >> > >c. Serves both as a resource for ICANN to pursue specific
> >> issues/questions
> >> > and
> >> > >solicit user information, and as a meeting point for individual Internet
> >> > users
> >> > >and their organizations.
> >> > >d. All ICANN policy-making entities will provide ALAC with appropriate
> >> > notice
> >> > >of upcoming and pending policy discussions and impending policy decisions
> >> > to
> >> > >ensure adequate opportunity for At-Large input
> >> > >e. Through At-Large Structures, ALAC will engage in outreach to, and
> >> > education
> >> > >of, individual Internet users about ICANN/ICANN issues and will involve
> >> > users
> >> > >and their representatives in decision making, aggregation of
> >> > >views, and identification of relevant Internet user priorities
> >> > >f. ALAC will work with other ICANN stakeholders to address issues and
> >> > develop
> >> > >positions on relevant issues
> >> > >g. ALAC will use on-line mechanisms as focal points for discussions and
> >> > >information dissemination, ensuring broad public access to ALAC
> >> activities
> >> > >h.
> >> > >3. Structure/Membership
> >> > >a. Should be structured so as to:
> >> > >i. Provide effective, broadly inclusive mechanism for involving and
> >> > >representing individual Internet users in ICANN's policy and
> >> > decision-making
> >> > >activities
> >> > >ii. Demonstrate that the organizations of which the ALAC is composed
> >> > actually
> >> > >do represent the populations they claim to represent.
> >> > >iii. Have membership that is geographically diverse, and is selected
> >> > through a
> >> > >process which includes each At-Large Structure (group) that meets
> >> specified
> >> > >criteria.
> >> > >4. Involvement w/ Board, other entities
> >> > >a. ALAC should have a liaison seat on the ICANN Board
> >> > >b. It should have liaisons to other ICANN policy-making bodies as
> >> > appropriate
> >> > >[To be defined.]
> >> > >c. Appointment of four delegates to the Nominating Committee
> >> > >5. "At-Large Structures" Criteria ­ new or existing organizations that:
> >> > >a. Are open, participatory, and self-sustaining
> >> > >b. Engage in outreach to, and education of, individual Internet users
> >> about
> >> > >ICANN and ICANN issues
> >> > >c. Involve individual Internet users in policy and decision-making and
> >> > >activities related to involvement in ICANN, including soliciting opinions
> >> > of
> >> > >their members and having participatory mechanisms for the discussion
> >> and/or
> >> > >development of policies, aggregating views, and identifying relevant
> >> > Internet
> >> > >user priorities concerning ICANN
> >> > >d. Maintain transparent and publicly accessible processes for input,
> >> policy
> >> > >development, and decision-making
> >> > >e. Post current information about the organization's aims, structure,
> >> > >membership, working mechanisms and current leadership
> >> > >f. Are open for new individual members
> >> > >g. Are able to maintain themselves without requiring funding from ICANN
> >> > >h. Are able to guarantee and demonstrate the real identity of their
> >> > >members and
> >> > >to provide the relevant anagraphical data in electronic form.
> >> > >6. At-Large Structure Designation/Development
> >> > >a. ICANN should post and distribute a call for At-Large Structures,
> >> > providing
> >> > >organizations with an appropriate period of time apply to be eligible to
> >> > >participate in the initial ALAC.
> >> > >b. Organizations fulfilling the criteria can apply to become At-Large
> >> > >Structures at any time and participate in the ALAC as appropriate
> >> > (immediately
> >> > >or during next selection cycle depending on process).
> >> > >c. It will be the ALAC's responsibility:
> >> > >i. to alter or update the admission criteria for new Structures;
> >> > >ii. to exclude from itself any Structure which, after appropriate
> >> > >verification,
> >> > >fails to meet the current criteria;
> >> > >iii. to state whether any prospective Structure meets the criteria and
> >> > >thus can
> >> > >be accepted in the process. Deliberations of type i) and ii) require a
> >> > >majority
> >> > >vote of 2/3 of the ALAC.
> >> > >d. At Large Structures will not be required to fund ICANN or the costs of
> >> > the
> >> > >ALAC, even if partially.
> >> > >
> >> > >7. ALAC Composition (options)
> >> > >a. (Variable membership) One member from each At-Large Structure
> >> > >b. (Fixed membership) Fixed number from each region (ICANN has
> >> > traditionally
> >> > >addressed geographic diversity based on five regions of the world) (the
> >> > >"Alexander plan")
> >> > >c. Fixed membership, half appointed and half elected.
> >> > >8. ALAC Funding and Staffing ALAC (options)
> >> > >a. The ALAC could be funded either by its members, by ICANN, or by some
> >> > >combination of the two.
> >> > >
> >> > >###
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >2
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >Esther Dyson                    Always make new mistakes!
> >chairman, EDventure Holdings
> >writer, Release 3.0 (on Website below)
> >edyson@edventure.com
> >1 (212) 924-8800    --   fax  1 (212) 924-0240
> >104 Fifth Avenue (between 15th and 16th Streets; 20th floor)
> >New York, NY 10011 USA
> >http://www.edventure.com
> >
> >The conversation continues..... at
> >http://www.edventure.com/conversation/
> >
> >
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 124k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
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E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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