Re: [atlarge-discuss] Translation issues

[espresso@e-scape.net]

At 21:37 -0700 2002/08/17, Jeff Williams wrote:
>  As I said above your remarks here, these tools can "do much of 
>the work", but certainly not all.  Hence, as a very useful and 
>broadly used tools translation facilities are very helpful.  Of 
>course proof reading would be needed to correct any small errors 
>or other more verbose ones after such translations have been 
>done...

Verbosity has nothing to do with it, Jeff. The best translation tools available fall into two categories:

1) computer-assisted translation programs, which work magnificently for technical documents written with a tightly-constrained vocabulary and a very plain style (e.g., the Université de Montréal's Météo program which automatically translates weather-forecast data), failing which human terminologists and editors have to translate the material into the form the program understands;

2) translation memory programs, which in effect match words or expressions in a document against a database of previous translations; the results of processing a document with a TM depend very much on the extent and quality of the database, and at best require a lot more than "proofreading" for "small errors" -- more like a systematic line-by-line edit of the material which, in my experience, takes almost as much time and effort as translating the whole thing in the first place. The exceptions would be things like spec sheets for 47 models of the same type of equipment, formulaic correspondence  containing only grammatically simple sentences, etc.

A human translator whose accuracy falls below 98% is likely to cause the client major problems. A TM-assisted translation which is only 80% accurate is quite likely to confuse or misinform or irritate the reader over the other 20% -- hardly a good outcome, and no way to persuade speakers of the target language that we really understand them.

>  I wasn't referring to "Babelfish" as and example.  I would not use >"Babelfish" for verbose documents or translations...

I'm beginning to think you're using "verbose" in a sense other than its usual one -- that is, for any document with more complex content than a straightforward business letter. If so, it's true that even the most lucidly expressed, non-legalese constitution and bylaws would qualify as verbose. However, I believe any translation of such materials needs to be at least 99% accurate and also read smoothly in the target language; otherwise, one shouldn't be surprised if native speakers of that language lose interest in reading them, rather than find themselves inspired to join us.

>As a TOOL there are many good, broadly used, and more than basically
>adequate translation TOOLS that can be used to do a large, but not complete
>amount of the translation of documents to various languages.

I presume the "TOOLS" you mean are things like Trados, DéjaVu, Star Transit, etc. -- in short, the translation memory programs which are widely promoted and sold to businesses (including translation agencies) as a way of slashing costs. Many of my colleagues do use these things, generally because they deal with corporate clients producing highly repetitive documents, and perhaps seeking to cut translation costs by paying only once for each term used if they do not know a second language well enough to realize that the same expression in English may have to be translated different ways in different contexts. 

From what I've seen produced for these clients with a TM and the proverbial quick once-over to eliminate the obvious howlers, the results are sometimes good enough for the purpose (as in the American businessman's propensity for "good enough documentation" as opposed to "good documentation"), it's no wonder people in other countries consider themselves better educated. I also hear frequent complaints from fellow-translators that since their consciences don't allow them to turn in inferior translations, they end up putting in many extra unpaid hours to turn "good enough" into "good".

>> >  I can get just about any kind of document translated into Chinese >(Several dialects), Japanese, French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish >and of course Russian.
>>
>> That is excellent ... as long as you mean they'll be translated into something native speakers would recognize as good usage in their own languages.
>
>  Yes of course I do mean that such translations would be plainly and >easily recognizable to native speakers of those languages...  Anything else >would simply not be worth mentioning or considering obviously...

Sorry to nitpick but I think there is a big difference between my "something native speakers would recognize as good usage" and your "plainly and easily recognizable". I am, first and foremost, a French-to-English translator; English is my native language and I've worked hard for many years to hone my skills so as to produce a given type of material with the style and vocabulary appropriate to the destined readership. When pressed by a client in a desperate hurry, I can produce a "recognizable" translation from English to French; however, if the material is intended for anything other than internal use, either the client or I will hire a well-educated native speaker of French to turn the result into *good* French.

This is not intended as a "flame". I do understand that most of the people on this list are not translators or editors and are probably not as concerned with things like good usage as I am. That being said, though, if we are serious about establishing a worldwide organization and eager to communicate our message to speakers of other languages, I don't think providing rough approximations will do. 

For every successful ad campaign aimed at a non-English-speaking market, there are at least a dozen *avoidable* failures. If this organization-to-be is to succeed, I think we need to learn from those failures. We have amongst us people who speak many different languages at home but write in intelligible English here. I hope they won't be offended if I state the obvious: that few people who have English as a second language write it flawlessly, and that sometimes using a single word wrongly can cause no end of misunderstandings within a group with a common goal, let alone when the group is an aggregate of people from different cultures with different agendas. 

I could easily make myself MISunderstood in German or Spanish but if I want to be understood, I'd write in my own language and trust a good English-to-German or English-to-Spanish translator (not a computer program, since no program extant really understands human language) to get my meaning across. 

Opinionated as ever,

Judyth

P.S. Since French, German and Spanish are amongst the languages you cited, I'd be very interested to see the results of pumping this message or Sotiris's report of the ALAC conference call through your translation program. Perhaps Jefsey, Hans and Gabriel would have something to say about the results.

##########################################################
Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
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"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once 
they have exhausted all other alternatives." (Abba Eban)
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See the UNESCO OBSERVATORY ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY!
http://www.unesco.org/webworld/observatory  



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