Re: [atlarge-discuss] Point of Order Re: [atlarge-discuss] Domain Name: icannatlarge.org

[Norbert Klein <nhklein@gmx.net>]

> Even if you were to assume (and it would be an unjustified assumption)
> that it is up to the Panel to propose a constitution and set the rules of
>  debate, no constitution worthy of the name is not discussed and amended
>  clause-by-clause until the parties to it are satisfied that it is ready
> to be ratified by a 2/3 majority of the voting membership. A constitution
>  which does not obtain general assent is no constitution at all! 
> 
> Therefore, it is of the utmost importance that we establish rules of
>  procedure now. 

OK - let me assume it is the Panel. Not becaue the Panel has a higher
authority to do this, but just because of practicalities: nothing can be drafted by
a big crowd. Even when you have face-to-face meetings, it is quite usual
that after some discussion, a smaller group is asked: "Just draft this, and then
come back."

If we cannot agree that we need a smaller group of drafters (the Panel, I
think - why did we vote for one? - but if some few want to join in the
drafting, I think the Panel could open a way for it) before coming back to the voting
membership, we are not going to ever get anything to vote about.

I am not anti-voting and anti-democratic, but in order to move - together,
as the goal - we have to have some working sub-structures, as a practical
requirement. 

Norbert

> 
> _Robert's_ is one among many handbooks of the kind but it's most popular
> in
>  English-speaking countries and establishes a set of rules everyone can
>  agree are impartial and not easily distorted by the self-seeking types
>  every organization attracts. Another virtue is that anyone can actually
> get
>  a copy from a library or bookstore and read for themselves how thousands
> of
>  non-profit organizations can eliminate most of the inefficiencies of a
>  democracy without in any way harming democratic principles. Personally,
> I'd
>  be willing to use Hansard or Bourinot or any of the others instead --
> it's
>  not which handbook we use that matters but that we do *something* to keep
>  ourselves working towards our stated goal.
> 
> An organization worthy of any respect is not composed of a Web site -- any
>  fool can make a site and claim to have lofty goals or speak for
> thousands.
> If this exercise is not to be completely pointless, we need to bring
>  *people* together to make collective decisions, and we need to do this
>  without face-to-face membership meetings every month or "unbreakable
> rules"
>  formulated by a handful of people which have never received the assent
>  required. 
> 
> Democracy is what you get when governance is "by the people, for the
> people"
>  and you really *can't* get that without allowing the people to vote. Once
>  the principles and ground-rules have been articulated and accepted by
>  members' votes, there will be fewer occasions when the whole membership
>  will be called upon to vote on each situation individually. 
> 
> Until then, if the idea of voting doesn't appeal to people, they should
> say
>  that flat-out, publish their own rules by which no voting is needed, and
>  let me go elsewhere to find a group which *is* interested in democratic
>  representation of Internet users.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Judyth
> 
> 
> ##########################################################
> Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
> ##########################################################
> "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> ##########################################################
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
> For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de
> 

-- 
Norbert Klein
Open Forum of Cambodia: www.forum.org.kh


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de