RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!

["Abel Wisman" <abel@able-towers.com>]

In short:

I support this whole heartedly, I subscrive to the ideas presented and
am willing to support this fully with all means possible.

It is time to stop discussing matters with the JW's of this planet and
start to make a difference, which is afaik the outset of the atlarge
group to begin with.

I propose to have all country representing groups given their
>country>.atlarge.org with which they have the freedom to make it work
in any way they see fit, providing they are members of the icannatlarge
community.

Kind regards

Abel

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com] 
Sent: 27 October 2002 00:15
To: Marc Schneiders; Hans Klein; atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
Cc: jefsey@club-internet.fr
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!


Once again, Marc Schneiders has displayed brilliant generosity and
placed trust in our organisation (a trust which we must work hard to
justify and fulfil). Marc has already donated www.icannatlarge.org to
the group (which has been chosen by vote as the name of the group).

Now Marc is also giving us www.atlarge.org which is a key domain name,
in that it publicly mirrors and challenges ICANN's phoney at large which
they promote at www.at-large.org

My advice to the group is to retain the organisation name
"IcannatLarge.org" (with or without the .org) but to make that domain
name and all our sites resolve to www.atlarge.org (as Jefsey has
suggested so convincingly all along).

This will enable us to focus on who we truly set out to be : the true AT
LARGE, the at large org which tries to speak for ordinary internet users
all round the world. With this domain name www.atlarge.org we have an
umbrella which (if we are wise) we will use to draw in many and varied
at-large groups and initiatives from all round the world. While we will
continue to build our ICANN-inheritance identity as the inheritor of
ICANN's at large, we need to now look more broadly to our shared
coalition with user-groups all round the world, and we would be mad to
be exclusive.

The site at www.atlarge.org is inspired intuition, offering subdomains
for each and every at large group and organisation around the world, to
share and participate under the www.atlarge umbrella - and offers us the
chance to publicly set up camp beyond Icann, as an official opposition
movement to Icann for all the world to see. By using subdomains, we can
now have a true bottom-up network developing : www.france.atlarge.org
and www.uk.atlarge.org  and  www.argentine.atlarge.org  and
www.southafrica.atlarge.org  and  www.outreach.atlarge.org  and
www.transfers.atlarge.org   and  www.newtlds.atlarge.org  and
www.italia.atlarge.org  and  www.nz.atlarge.org  and
www.gay.atlarge.org and  www.digitaldivide.atlarge.org  and so on and so
on...

We can, indeed, even invite all the members of Denise Michel's "pretend"
Atlarge committee to join our own At Large which has the superiority of
actually having 1000 members already in it, whereas Denise has,
basically, her and Esther! So we should not be hesitant to create our
"mirror" organisation. They can't possibly challenge our use of "at
large" when we can demonstrate that our members were the actual at large
all along, and besides, imagine the press publicity if she tried! We
need to be very bold at this juncture and insist that we - the users of
the world - the people Icann dispossessed by coup - are the true At
Large, gathering under the "AtLarge" domain name at the "AtLarge"
website. This is something Icann will truly detest!

My friends, I have got to a pivotal place (which I expected to happen)
in my relationship with this organisation. I regard it as essential that
we truly utilise this domain name, and thereby adopt the architecture
which will most truly alarm Icann, setting ourselves up as the beginning
of a true and public "at large" governance-in-exile. I am happy to
accept that some members want (with total integrity) to live and work
within the constraints of a narrower "ICANNatlarge" concentrating on
creating the at large inside Icann. I can see that as a viable exercise.
But personally it has never been more than a peripheral part of my
vision for the At Large. I made clear in both elections that I stood for
a broader view of the At Large. Therefore, I will not personally travel
on as a panel member, if we fail to grasp the www.atlarge.org initiative
and set it up as the heart of the new At Large.

Certainly, I would continue to lend my support as a member to the
narrower Icannatlarge and wish it well, but at the point we abandon this
incredible opportunity, my personal vision will have started to diverge,
and I will seek to be a panel-member of a different (though related)
organisation. That's how strongly I feel about this.

For most of us, this venture is not a power-trip and positions like
"panel-m ember" should simply be held by those who are committed to the
direction an organisation is going. For me, if we do not choose to
resolve our site to www.atlarge.org , then I would want to be replaced
by a member more in sympathy with the direction of the group.

I am not arguing for "either... or" : I'm arguing for "yes... and...
yes" : I want those who pursue the internal Icann project to do so to
their utmost, but I have to say "yes" too, to the broad far-reaching
global "At Large" project which www.atlarge.org can become. The concept
is inspired. I can believe in it. It is an architecture which will
strike fear in Icann, and it is the only direction I personally believe
in.

So my friends, with total good will to you all, I (naturally) put my
case. Not as a threat, but as a personal conviction. I cannot see any
sensible reason for "limiting" our website to the "Icannatlarge"
subsection of the "AtLarge", even though I am happy to draw attention to
our historic roots by using the Name Icannatlarge as our identity (at
least until such time as Icann is removed).

My thanks once again to Marc - he has done a generous thing for us. My
good wishes to you all. And whether as a panel member or a bottom-up
regular member, I will continue to believe in the At Large as a movement
which represents the interests of the many against the greed of the few,
and which I will continue to want to support in each of its many
manifestations. For me personally, I see the At Large as a multi-faceted
network of bottom-up groups, who should each be given a platform within
www.atlarge.org to grow and develop and express - yes - sometimes
conflicting views. I do NOT take the view that we should "top-down" try
to define all web content. I take the view that we should simply be
facilitators and enablers, providing a platform, and letting the many
strands of the user community contribute to the At Large which is
theirs.

No doubt we shall have some discussion and debate on this website matter
in the coming days or weeks. It is not a falling-out matter. It is a
choice. And then the people whose choice prevails need to go with that
choice and lead the group and its website in a resolute direction. I
believe we can ALL travel forward resolutely with www.atlarge.org

Kind regards

Richard Henderson



----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Schneiders <marc@schneiders.org>
To: Hans Klein <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>
Cc: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>;
<jefsey@club-internet.fr>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!


> Hi Hans, Jefsey and Richard,
>
> Sorry for the delay in responding. You can have it. Let me know how 
> and where.
>
> Good luck with the efforts!
>
> Marc



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