Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

I agree with what you say, Abel.

We're supposed to be a bottom-up organisation.

Let each country take responsibility for it's own web-pages, its own
initiatives, and work through its www.country.atlarge.org  and let's see
which countries really start to grow.

And where a country is under-represented, let each region support outreach
into that country through www.region.atlarge.org  and again, let's start to
get this organisation really moving as the Real multi-faceted at large!

And let WG-Outreach put together support material and advice and further
ideas at www.outreach.atlarge.org

And let the panel post and facilitate through www.panel.atlarge.org

And let other organisations, though independent, ally with the atlarge at
www.othergroup?.atlarge.org

This way we will start to see the free and independent growth of the At
Large, as an umbrella network of groups outside ICANN, yet demanding a
decisive say INSIDE Icann.

This is the version of At Large which Icann truly does not want to happen,
because it does not submit to Icann control and machinations. Yes, it may
participate in their committees and schemes to subsume us, but the REAL
AtLarge is fully established and independent and growing, outside Icann -
the world at large!

I urge the panel and the membership to grasp this architecture and this
potential.

Icann's www.at-large.org is a hollow org with a hyphen, basically consisting
of Denise and Esther.

The real www.atlarge.org is taking root all over the world, and consists
already of 1000 people in over 70 countries. Under a broad umbrella and
building a coalition of supporters it will challenge the tiny power-bloc
inside Icann to hand back representation to the millions of ordinary
internet users worldwide.

The Internet belongs to the whole world, not to a clique.

Kind regards

Richard Henderson

PS: Meanwhile, let me remind you that, temporarily, you can see the
membership listed in over 70 national groups at
ww.theinternetchallenge.com  - the evidence that this organisation has a
worldwide following. We also have the membership e-mail lists for each
country. We now have the Name of the organisation and the perfect site to
host each country's growth. The By-Laws and Mission Statement are in process
and we shall soon have those too. Things are moving. This is a demonstration
of part of the At Large - there is much more to follow.

----- Original Message -----
From: Abel Wisman <abel@able-towers.com>
To: 'Richard Henderson' <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>; 'Marc Schneiders'
<marc@schneiders.org>; 'Hans Klein' <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>;
<atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Cc: <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!


> In short:
>
> I support this whole heartedly, I subscrive to the ideas presented and
> am willing to support this fully with all means possible.
>
> It is time to stop discussing matters with the JW's of this planet and
> start to make a difference, which is afaik the outset of the atlarge
> group to begin with.
>
> I propose to have all country representing groups given their
> >country>.atlarge.org with which they have the freedom to make it work
> in any way they see fit, providing they are members of the icannatlarge
> community.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Abel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 27 October 2002 00:15
> To: Marc Schneiders; Hans Klein; atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> Cc: jefsey@club-internet.fr
> Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
>
>
> Once again, Marc Schneiders has displayed brilliant generosity and
> placed trust in our organisation (a trust which we must work hard to
> justify and fulfil). Marc has already donated www.icannatlarge.org to
> the group (which has been chosen by vote as the name of the group).
>
> Now Marc is also giving us www.atlarge.org which is a key domain name,
> in that it publicly mirrors and challenges ICANN's phoney at large which
> they promote at www.at-large.org
>
> My advice to the group is to retain the organisation name
> "IcannatLarge.org" (with or without the .org) but to make that domain
> name and all our sites resolve to www.atlarge.org (as Jefsey has
> suggested so convincingly all along).
>
> This will enable us to focus on who we truly set out to be : the true AT
> LARGE, the at large org which tries to speak for ordinary internet users
> all round the world. With this domain name www.atlarge.org we have an
> umbrella which (if we are wise) we will use to draw in many and varied
> at-large groups and initiatives from all round the world. While we will
> continue to build our ICANN-inheritance identity as the inheritor of
> ICANN's at large, we need to now look more broadly to our shared
> coalition with user-groups all round the world, and we would be mad to
> be exclusive.
>
> The site at www.atlarge.org is inspired intuition, offering subdomains
> for each and every at large group and organisation around the world, to
> share and participate under the www.atlarge umbrella - and offers us the
> chance to publicly set up camp beyond Icann, as an official opposition
> movement to Icann for all the world to see. By using subdomains, we can
> now have a true bottom-up network developing : www.france.atlarge.org
> and www.uk.atlarge.org  and  www.argentine.atlarge.org  and
> www.southafrica.atlarge.org  and  www.outreach.atlarge.org  and
> www.transfers.atlarge.org   and  www.newtlds.atlarge.org  and
> www.italia.atlarge.org  and  www.nz.atlarge.org  and
> www.gay.atlarge.org and  www.digitaldivide.atlarge.org  and so on and so
> on...
>
> We can, indeed, even invite all the members of Denise Michel's "pretend"
> Atlarge committee to join our own At Large which has the superiority of
> actually having 1000 members already in it, whereas Denise has,
> basically, her and Esther! So we should not be hesitant to create our
> "mirror" organisation. They can't possibly challenge our use of "at
> large" when we can demonstrate that our members were the actual at large
> all along, and besides, imagine the press publicity if she tried! We
> need to be very bold at this juncture and insist that we - the users of
> the world - the people Icann dispossessed by coup - are the true At
> Large, gathering under the "AtLarge" domain name at the "AtLarge"
> website. This is something Icann will truly detest!
>
> My friends, I have got to a pivotal place (which I expected to happen)
> in my relationship with this organisation. I regard it as essential that
> we truly utilise this domain name, and thereby adopt the architecture
> which will most truly alarm Icann, setting ourselves up as the beginning
> of a true and public "at large" governance-in-exile. I am happy to
> accept that some members want (with total integrity) to live and work
> within the constraints of a narrower "ICANNatlarge" concentrating on
> creating the at large inside Icann. I can see that as a viable exercise.
> But personally it has never been more than a peripheral part of my
> vision for the At Large. I made clear in both elections that I stood for
> a broader view of the At Large. Therefore, I will not personally travel
> on as a panel member, if we fail to grasp the www.atlarge.org initiative
> and set it up as the heart of the new At Large.
>
> Certainly, I would continue to lend my support as a member to the
> narrower Icannatlarge and wish it well, but at the point we abandon this
> incredible opportunity, my personal vision will have started to diverge,
> and I will seek to be a panel-member of a different (though related)
> organisation. That's how strongly I feel about this.
>
> For most of us, this venture is not a power-trip and positions like
> "panel-m ember" should simply be held by those who are committed to the
> direction an organisation is going. For me, if we do not choose to
> resolve our site to www.atlarge.org , then I would want to be replaced
> by a member more in sympathy with the direction of the group.
>
> I am not arguing for "either... or" : I'm arguing for "yes... and...
> yes" : I want those who pursue the internal Icann project to do so to
> their utmost, but I have to say "yes" too, to the broad far-reaching
> global "At Large" project which www.atlarge.org can become. The concept
> is inspired. I can believe in it. It is an architecture which will
> strike fear in Icann, and it is the only direction I personally believe
> in.
>
> So my friends, with total good will to you all, I (naturally) put my
> case. Not as a threat, but as a personal conviction. I cannot see any
> sensible reason for "limiting" our website to the "Icannatlarge"
> subsection of the "AtLarge", even though I am happy to draw attention to
> our historic roots by using the Name Icannatlarge as our identity (at
> least until such time as Icann is removed).
>
> My thanks once again to Marc - he has done a generous thing for us. My
> good wishes to you all. And whether as a panel member or a bottom-up
> regular member, I will continue to believe in the At Large as a movement
> which represents the interests of the many against the greed of the few,
> and which I will continue to want to support in each of its many
> manifestations. For me personally, I see the At Large as a multi-faceted
> network of bottom-up groups, who should each be given a platform within
> www.atlarge.org to grow and develop and express - yes - sometimes
> conflicting views. I do NOT take the view that we should "top-down" try
> to define all web content. I take the view that we should simply be
> facilitators and enablers, providing a platform, and letting the many
> strands of the user community contribute to the At Large which is
> theirs.
>
> No doubt we shall have some discussion and debate on this website matter
> in the coming days or weeks. It is not a falling-out matter. It is a
> choice. And then the people whose choice prevails need to go with that
> choice and lead the group and its website in a resolute direction. I
> believe we can ALL travel forward resolutely with www.atlarge.org
>
> Kind regards
>
> Richard Henderson
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Schneiders <marc@schneiders.org>
> To: Hans Klein <hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu>
> Cc: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>;
> <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Further correspondence on atlarge.org!
>
>
> > Hi Hans, Jefsey and Richard,
> >
> > Sorry for the delay in responding. You can have it. Let me know how
> > and where.
> >
> > Good luck with the efforts!
> >
> > Marc
>
>
>
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