RE: [atlarge-discuss] Panel, elections and over-delayingmaneuvers.

[espresso@e-scape.net]

At 22:23 +0000 2003/03/23, Abel Wisman wrote:
>Sorry for the cut & past, but otherwise this would get way to big.
>
>Correction on what you write hereafter:

To which I can only respond with the sad fact that I did not get
from what Bruce wrote to you on March 20th under a subject-line
about the Web site that he meant to say what he had not said in his
off-list message to me or this of March 19th addressed to
Vittorio on his comments:

>Delivered-To: mailing list atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
>Reply-To: <bruce@barelyadequate.info>
>From: <bruce@barelyadequate.info>
>To: "Vittorio Bertola" <vb@bertola.eu.org>,
>   "J-F C. \(Jefsey\)  Morfin" <jefsey@club-internet.fr>
>Cc: <ga@dnso.org>, "At-Large Discussion List"
><atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:30:38 -0800
>[header snipped]
>Subject: [atlarge-discuss] RE: [ga] ICANN Staff's at-large website
>
>Vittorio Bertola wrote:
>
>|  False. I gave the password to the watchdogs. And I am not Chair
>|  of anything any more.
>
>At the very least, this should have been discussed before you took
>unilateral action.
>
>|  You fail to mention that the three not resigning Panelists,
>|  including you,
>|  voted unanimously to have new elections rather than call
>|  replacements in and
>|  continue working. I simply applied what we decided. You could have
>voted
>|  against the election if you didn't want the Panel to stop working.
>
>And you fail to understand that, at the point that the decesion was
>made to
>conduct elections, our mandate was *not* to give up and run away, it
>was to
>ensure elections were conducted.  Instead, you passed our membership
>list
>and Web site password to two members of your own choosing.  If you
>wanted to
>reject your responisibilities to our membership, that's one thing.
>But you
>had no right to make that decision for Jefsey and myself.
>
>[snip]
>
>|  If there are practical problems that prevent the election from
>happening,
>I
>|  have said a number of times that I am available to help the
>watchdogs.
>
>As have both Jefsey and myself.
>
>|  Why can't we simply have elections and let the members vote on who
>|  should lead
>|  them, rather than you and Bruce ruling the organization alone?
>
>We're not trying to "rule" anything, we're just trying to get a @$#&*&#
>election going!  The current list holders have communicated their lack
>of
>resources to conduct this election.  Someone who has them needs to
>step up!
>If not Jefsey or myself, then who?
>
>
>|  There's no necessity for you to have the membership list before the
>elections.
>
>I don't want the list, I want an election, so we can move on.
>
>Bruce Young
>Portland, Oregon USA
>bruce@barelyadequate.info
>http://www.barelyadequate.info
>--------------------------------------------
>Support democratic control of the Internet!
>Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!


I believe Bruce knows perfectly well, even if some of you do
not, that I am simply holding the list on behalf of the group,
as instructed, until the Panelists or their chosen Chief
Electoral Officer-type person accept the list and discharge
me of that responsibility.

I repeat: I did not ask for those files and Vittorio had no
business sending them to me but, once I had them, I took
seriously my duty to hold them unopened until they were
needed for the elections.

Despite Vittorio's message, I had never imagined he meant for
Jan and myself to run the election ourselves without reference
to the Panel or the membership, and I never undertook to do more
than serve the group's interests in whatever way it wanted.

Bruce voted in my mini-ballot without saying it
was unnecessary or that I should just send him the files.
He reacted very positively when I published the results on
this list. He knows how to reach me on or off the list, and
didn't ask me to send him the files by either means. He has
said that he does not personally need them at this point
in order to organize an election.

Meanwhile, the public record showed us to have THREE members
on our Panel who had not resigned, and Eric Dierker had as
much in the way of rights and obligations as Jefsey and Bruce.
We did not elect Panelists to take individual actions; we
elected an Interim Panel to act in concert, and to me that
means the Panel as an entity should receive the files and
maintain both the membership roster and the Web site.

Am I the only person here who balks at the notion that
electing people to sit on a particular elective body means
the individuals can each do as they please rather than reach
a decision with their colleagues? Or that repeated requests
from one of three Panelists are the same thing as a
Panel decision?

If so, I am most certainly in the wrong place, since in
that case the very notion of democratic governance has
been abandoned in the very group whose purpose it was to
demand democratic governance of the Internet. But it seems
to me that more individuals have said "we want democratic
governance" than have said "we like the old system where
one person can make decisions on our behalf without any
consultation or formal approval."

Frankly, at this point the most sensible thing I could do
would be to delete the files - in fact, it seems to be the
only thing I can do short of continuing to keep them safe
until somebody is duly authorized to receive them from me
and absolve me of the responsibility for them.

Thanks to some support received for my belief that members
want this to become a viable organization, I am doing the
latter ... despite the obvious belief in some quarters that
I have no right to ask that at least two of three Panelists
say "we have agreed", or that as many of the list's members
say "give them the bloody things" as said "just keep them
ready for use in the elections" when they had also been
given the option to say "give them to Jefsey and Bruce" and
didn't choose it.

Let me make this really, really simple: to date, those clearly
in favour of my giving the files to Bruce and Jefsey (as
opposed to "the Panel") are Jefsey and Abel. Those we can
assume to be against it are Vittorio (since he wouldn't give
the files to them) and myself (because of my irksome belief
in due process). I can't make out which way Jeff leans from
what he has said, and I haven't a clue what the people who
didn't say anything may be thinking. I've asked before whether
people just want me to butt out altogether but now I'll ask
more specifically: exactly what is it that you, individual
members, think I should do? On the list or off it, your
responses would be most helpful.

Regards,

Judyth



>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: bruce@barelyadequate.info [mailto:bruce@barelyadequate.info]
>Sent: 20 March 2003 01:30
>To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
>Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] ICANN Staff's at-large website
>
><cut>
><abel wrote>
>| Your support in organizing elections could be started with sending
>the
>
>| list to Jefsey and Bruce, and at least have them organize election,
>if
>
>| they abuse that list in any form it will haunt them and not you like
>| it does now.
>
>Please!  I promise to not abuse this list in any manner, and use it
>solely for effecting the election.  I am willing to do all the work
>myself, if necessary, funneling election message traffic through my
>domain mail server, and auto-forwarding the results to designated
>watchdogs.
>
>| As an ordinary member, I urge you once again to send the list to
>both
>| collegue panellist that remain, who in turn without a shadow of a
>| doubt will not abuse that list, and solely organize elections within
>a
>
>| time frame that is reasonable.
>
>Yes.  I will affirm that.  I'm sure Jefsey would as well.
>
></cut>
>
>I guess this shows clearly the wishes of Bruce.
>
>Abel


##########################################################
Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
##########################################################
"A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
"Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus."
##########################################################



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