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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Internet for Users
James and all fellow members,
I agree with you that there are now perhaps some "shills" of various
industrial groups posing as common users for purposes unknown
as on the 21'st I posted here trying to get some of Jefsey's, Eric's,
and Bruce's so called or supposed "Candidates", illegitimate as the
are, to identify themselves fully to the members on this very forum.
However only three did so. This is possibly troubling for the
reasons you give below in your remarks. None the less James,
we cannot limit whom is a member simply because of their other
affiliations unless there is a known and identifiable COI. But as
potential future Panel members or other leaders of various sorts,
we certainly need to know as precisely as possible from them,
what their interests are as it relates directly to the members
atlarge. However this should be handled more adequately in the
Bylaws and Charter for this fledgling organization so as to keep
the power of decision and subsequent action in the hands of
the members via their vote of approval on anything that directly
or indirectly effect the membership as a whole.
Jkhan wrote:
> Dear Jeff-ttt,
>
> I put the "Good Samaritan(s)" out there because there are folks that are
> genuine. *However* their are also folks who want to white-wash the fact
> that: " they do indeed work for a Telecom industrial affiliate of the
> Internet" and would go to lengths to: Not disclose the 'interest of their
> own involvement with Icannatlarge, so that they may wield there concerns to
> the benefit of their Industrial pockets, under the guise of " The interests
> of *Users* on the demand side".
>
> This is the seed of the hypocrisy which will grow through-out this
> organization, if it is not exposed and counter-balanced.
>
> ? What if this organization was O.P.E.C.atLarge, don't you think the Oil
> Industrial Conglomerates or current US Admin., would be busy making sure
> that they have an inside influence on their side. Of course they would.
>
> It's Round-Up time,
> Yee-Ha!
>
> JKhan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Holt" <jefftttt@txucom.net>
> To: "'Jkhan'" <Jkhan@MetroMgr.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 5:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Internet for Users
>
> > Yeah, what James said....
> > IMHO, the answers to both perspectives should revolve around the Users,
> > though perhaps not from being any "Good Samaritan" - didn't the Good
> > Samaritan get screwed?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > TTTT
> > Jefftttt@txucom.net
> > www.tejas-info-services.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jkhan [mailto:Jkhan@MetroMgr.com]
> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:58 AM
> > To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Internet for Users
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I am asking a very *obvious & transparent* question, that I feel is
> > relevant
> > to the forum of this organization.
> > Before an Election is held.
> >
> > Yes it was poised twice, because it is posed at two (2) different
> > Audiences:
> >
> > the Membership
> > and
> > the Candidates
> > --
> >
> > > Hence any "Metric" would of
> > > course have to be reflective of the desire of the members
> > > irrespective of "Demographics" in said participation
> > > to an AtLarge organization.
> >
> > " There are two-sides of a Coin "
> >
> > ... ok ... It's election time the Candidates are lined up, the
> > Membership is
> > fired-up and ready to vote!
> >
> > Side 1.
> > I feel it important to know; What the Membership which comprises this
> > organization is comprised of.
> > That is to say, to know *WHY* the people support a certain perspective,
> > be
> > it related to:
> >
> > The interests of *Users* on the demand side,
> > The interests of *Industrial Affiliates*
> > The interests of *Government(so)*
> >
> > ...so... Is it because they are:
> >
> > Good Samaritans
> > Industrial Relatives
> > Public Servants
> > --
> > Side 2.
> > I feel it important to know; What the Candidates (Potential Panel
> > Members)
> > which comprises this organization is comprised of.
> > That is to say, to know *WHY* the Candidate support a certain
> > perspective,
> > be it related to:
> >
> > The interests of *Users* on the demand side,
> > The interests of *Industrial Affiliates*
> > The interests of *Government(so)*
> >
> > ...so... Is it because they are:
> >
> > Good Samaritans
> > Industrial Relatives
> > Public Servants
> > --
> > ...now...
> > Because there are different perspectives associated to intrest, the
> > metric's
> > of Icannatlarge demographic is important to establish, in order to
> > understand the dynamics of People's relationship with Icannatlarge.(*)
> >
> > The Members have to understand this dynamic, *AND* the Panel have to
> > understand this dynamic, BEFORE THE VOTE. As they will be in a
> > Push-N-Pull
> > flux, with a metric (an understanding of the boundaries) to keep them
> > within
> > tolerance.
> > I am saying that the two halves must closely match ideologies, in order
> > to
> > become successful.
> >
> > Zenith Television Co.: "The quality goes in ... before the name goes on"
> > The same applies here, I want to know the quality of the Panel and
> > Members
> > of this organization before the name Icannatlarge goes on.
> >
> > Regards,
> > James Khan
> >
> > (*) [and to Jefey's credit, he did establish a dialog for this, by
> > asking
> > us to send in questions for the vote. However asking questions posed
> > above,
> > 'at the time of the vote' would be blind, so I choose to ask them now. ]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: "Jkhan" <Jkhan@MetroMgr.com>
> > Cc: "Jan Siren" <sirenj@earthlink.net>; "Joanna Lane" <jo-uk@rcn.com>;
> > <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 11:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Internet for Users
> >
> >
> > > James and all fellow members,
> > >
> > > James, it seems you ask the same question twice. One
> > > addressing Panel members, which we do not have at this
> > > point in time, and one for members, LOL! What's
> > > up with that anyway?
> > >
> > > In any event, members and future Panel members are one in the
> > > same except that the future Panel members will be the servants
> > > of the membership at large. Hence any "Metric" would of
> > > course have to be reflective of the desire of the members
> > > irrespective of "Demographics" in said participation
> > > to an Atlagre organization.
> > >
> > > BTW, I believe that we have already had this question answered
> > > and quite a bit of discussion in like regard.
> > >
> > > Jkhan wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jan,
> > > >
> > > > If you would please, two questions:
> > > >
> > > > What question(s) would you ask, to derive a demographic metric of
> > the
> > > > ' Icannatlarge-Member's professional/business' relationship(s), too,
> > > > their participation in Icannatlarge?
> > > >
> > > > What question(s) would you ask, to derive a demographic metric of
> > the
> > > > ' Icannatlarge-Panel Member's professional/business'
> > relationship(s),
> > > > too, their participation in Icannatlarge?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > James Khan
> > > >
> > > > What's New at the UN Today!
> > > > WIPO
> > > >
> > http://www.wipo.org/about-ip/en/studies/publications/domain_names.htm
> > > >
> > > > http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/
> > > >
> > > > http://ecommerce.wipo.int/domains/
> > > >
> > > > ITU
> > > > http://www.itu.int/WORLD2003/
> > > >
> > > > http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/telsurp/TSProjGuidlnsFeb03.pdf
> > > >
> > > > http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/ni/promotebroadband/index.html
> > > >
> > > > http://www.itu.int/newsroom/wtd/2003/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Joanna Lane wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > James,
> > > > > Objection. These are not good questions. They promote a
> > fundamental
> > > > > misunderstanding about whois the At Large. At Large exists to
> > > > promote the
> > > > > interests of *users* on the demand side, as opposed to those on
> > the
> > > > supply
> > > > > side. Naturally, some of those users will be Individual Domain
> > Name
> > > > > Registrants, whose interests are the focus of some candidates,
> > Joop
> > > > for
> > > > > example, but to imply that domain name issues are the only
> > concerns
> > > > of this
> > > > > organization, and to omit reference to the general public user
> > > > anywhere in
> > > > > your questions completely misses the fundamental principles at the
> > > > heart of
> > > > > the At Large. Put simply, the At Large exists to lobby for the
> > user
> > > > interest
> > > > > that ICANN ignores. It exists for the benefit of the public, not
> > > > domain name
> > > > > registrants, individual, corporate or otherwise.
> > > > > Joanna
> > > >
> > > > Joanna, your views are more like my own than those of any candidate
> > > > whose
> > > > views I know.
> > > >
> > > > Joop mentioned "legislation against alt roots," "what is spam,"
> > > > "arbitrary
> > > > seizure," "inadvertent deletes," "bullying cease and desist
> > letters,"
> > > > "hijacking," "fee increases, etc." as if these issues are solely of
> > > > concern
> > > > to domain name owners. But all of these do affect the way *users*
> > use
> > > > the
> > > > Internet, and accordingly, *users* should be able to assert
> > themselves
> > > > about
> > > > them through their own at-large constituency.
> > > >
> > > > I would like to know from the candidates the role the *users* are to
> > > > play
> > > > in the at-large constituency
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > > "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
> > > Pierre Abelard
> > > ================================================================
> > > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> > > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
Pierre Abelard
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
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