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Re: Programmiererethik, geistiges Eigentum und Swpat



On 24 Jul 2002, at 22:07, Martin Uecker wrote:

> die ganze Diskussion von Erfindungshöhe ist hier irrelavant. 

Haeh? Wer bestimmt das?

>Es geht nur darum, ob JPEG einen technischen Effekt hat. 

Wie kommen wir jetzt gerade auf JPEG? Na gut.

> Dein Argument war:
> 
>  CII haben schon allein dadurch "Technizität", weil eine
>  CPU Energie verbraucht.
> 
>  JPEG als CII hat also "Technizität".
> 
> Mein Gegenargument war: 
> 
>  MII hätten dann auch "Technizität", weil ein
>  Musikinstrument Energie verbraucht.

Es ist hier ueberhaupt nicht geklaert worden, was "MIIs" sein sollen. 
Ich habe in einem Posting gefragt, wie denn ein konkreter 
Beispielspatentanspruch fuer eine "MII" aussehen soll.
 
>  Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII hat also "Technizität".

Das habe ich nie behauptet. Es ist auch garnicht beantwortbar, ob 
"Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII" technisch sei oder nicht. Ich weiss 
ueberhaupt nicht, was konkret denn "Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII" 
sein soll. Schreib doch mal einen entsprechenden Patentanspruch auf!  

>  Das ist absurd. 

_Was_ soll denn absurd sein?

> Der Grund, warum das absurd ist (in beiden Fällen), ist folgender:
> 
> Das Wesen der Sonatenhauptsatzform bzw. von JPEG ist gänzlich
> ohne "Technizität". Das eine ist Musik, das andere Mathematik.

Hmmm... also, ich weiss nicht, was das "Wesen" von JPEG ist. Dem 
Patentrecht ist es auch vollig egal, ob da ein "Wesen" west oder 
nicht oder was.

Faktum hinsichtlich JPEG ist, dass es in den USA in Patent US 
4,698,672 A mit Anmeldetag 27. Oktober 1986 gibt, bei dem sich 
mindestens ein Patentanspruch auf einen Computer lesen laesst, der 
eine JPEG-Codierung/Decodierung vornimmt. Ob das ueberhaupt sachlich 
zutrifft, ist aber umstritten; moeglicherweise betreffen die 
Ansprueche auch nur verlustfreie Kompressionen ausserhalb von JPEG.

Hier nochmal die unabhaengigen Patentansprueche aus diesem Patent:

------------------------------- CUT ------------------------------

1. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital signals 
have first values, second values and other values, to reduce the 
amount of data utilized to represent the digital signals and to form 
statistically coded signals such that the more frequently occurring 
values of digital signals are represented by shorter code lengths and 
the less frequently occurring values of digital signals are 
represented by longer code lengths, comprising,  

forming first runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by said 
second value,  

forming second runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by one     
of said other values.  

[...]

6. A method for processing input signals to reduce the amount of data 
utilized to represent the input signals, the steps comprising,  

processing the input signals to form processed signals where the 
processed signals are digital numbers having first values, second 
values, and other values,  

coding each digital number to form statistically coded signals such 
that the more frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are 
represented by shorter code lengths and the less frequently occurring 
values of coded signals are represented by longer code lengths, said 
coding including,  

forming first runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive first values followed by said second value in a digital 
number,  

forming second runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive first values followed by one of said other values in the 
digital number.  

[...]

12. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital 
signals have first values, second values and other values, where the 
processing reduces the amount of data utilized to represent the 
digital signals and where the processing forms statistically coded 
signals such that the more frequently occurring values of digital 
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values of digital signals are represented by 
longer code lengths, comprising,  

forming a first code value representing a set of said first values 
followed by said second value,  

forming a second code value representing a set of said first values 
followed by one or more of said other values.  


13. A method for processing digital signals to reduce the amount of 
data utilized to represent the digital signals, the steps comprising, 
 
processing the digital signals to form processed signals where the 
processed signals are multivalued digital numbers and have first 
values, second values, . . . , j-values, (j+1)-values, . . . , n-
values for j ranging from 1 to n, and have other values,  

coding said processed signals to form statistically coded signals 
such that the more frequently occurring values of the processed 
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values of coded signals are represented by 
longer code lengths, said coding including,  

forming j.sup.th runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by said 
j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,  

forming additional runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by any of 
said other values.  

[...]  

25. An apparatus for processing digital signals, where the digital 
signals have first values, second values and other values, to reduce 
the amount of data utilized to represent the digital signals and to 
form statistically coded signals such that the more frequently 
occurring values of digital signals are represented by shorter code 
lengths and the less frequently occurring values of digital signals 
are represented by longer code lengths, comprising,   

means for forming first runlength code values representing the number 
of consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by said 
second value,   

means for forming second runlength code values representing the 
number of consecutive first values of said digital signals followed 
by one of said other values.   


[...]  

30. An apparatus for processing input signals to reduce the amount of 
data utilized to represent the input signals, the apparatus 
comprising,  

means for processing the input signals to form processed signals 
where the processed signals are digital numbers having first values, 
second values, and other values,  

means for coding each digital number to form statistically coded 
signals such that the more frequently occurring values in the digital 
numbers are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are represented by 
longer code lengths, said means for coding including,  

means for forming first runlength code values representing the number 
of consecutive first values followed by said second value in a 
digital number,  

means for forming second runlength code values representing the 
number of consecutive first values followed by one of said other 
values in the digital number.  

[...]

38. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital 
signals have first values, second values and other values, where the 
processing reduces the amount of data utilized to represent the 
digital signals and where the processing forms statistically coded 
signals such that the more frequently occurring values of digital 
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values of digital signals are represented by 
longer code lengths, where  

a first code value is formed representing a set of said first values 
followed by said second value,  

a second code value is formed representing a set of said first values 
followed by one or more of said other values  

comprising,  

decoding said first code value to form a set of said first values 
followed by said second value,  

decoding said second code value to form a set of said first values 
followed by one or more of said other values.  


39. A method for processing digital signals to reduce the amount of 
data utilized to represent the digital signals, the steps comprising, 
 
processing the digital signals to form processed signals where the 
processed signals are multivalued digital numbers and have first 
values, second values, . . . , j-values, (j+1)-values, . . . , n-
values for j ranging from 1 to n, and have other values,  

coding said processed signals to form statistically coded signals 
such that the more frequently occurring values of the processed 
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values of coded signals are represented by 
longer code lengths, said coding including,  

forming j.sup.th runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by said 
j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,  

forming additional runlength code values representing the number of 
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by any of 
said other values  

transmitting said j.sup.th runlength code values and said additional 
runlength code values to a receiver to form received signal including 
received j.sup.th runlength code values and received additional 
runlength code values,  

decoding said received signals to form decoded signals, said decoding 
including,  

decoding said received j.sup.th runlength code values to form a 
number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value followed by 
said j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,  

decoding said received additional runlength code values to form a 
number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value followed by 
any of said other values.  

42. An apparatus for processing input signals to reduce the amount of 
data utilized to represent the input signals, the apparatus 
comprising,  

means for processing the input signals to form processed signals 
where the processed signals are digital numbers having first values, 
second values, and other values,  

means for coding each digital number to form statistically coded 
signals such that the more frequently occurring values in the digital 
numbers are represented by shorter code lengths and the less 
frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are represented by 
longer code lengths, said means for coding including,  

means for forming first runlength code values representing the number 
of consecutive first values followed by said second value in a 
digital number,  

means for forming second runlength code values representing the 
number of consecutive first values followed by one of said other 
values in the digital number,  

means for transmitting said j.sup.th runlength code values and said 
additional runlength code values to a receiver to form received 
signal including received j.sup.th runlength code values and received 
additional runlength code values,  

means for decoding said received signals to form decoded signals, 
said means for decoding including,  

means for decoding said received j.sup.th runlength code values to 
form a number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value 
followed by said j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,  

means for decoding said received additional runlength code values to 
form a number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value 
followed by any of said other values.  

------------------------------- CUT ------------------------------

Wenn ich mir diese Ansprueche so ansehe, scheinen sie mir saemtlich 
zum Ambivalenzbereich der computerimplementierbaren Erfindungen zu 
gehoeren, die irgendwo zwischen den nicht computerimplementierbaren 
Erfindungen ("Pleulstange") und den computer-implementierten 
Erfindungen ("Computer+Funktionalitaetsangabe") stehen.

Erlaeuterungen zum Ambivalenzbereich finden sich im Lutterbeck-
Gutachten.

Die Gegenstände der obigen Vorrichtungsansprueche lassen sich im 
Prinzip sowohl durch eine spezielle Hardware (ASIC) als auch durch 
Computer plus funktionsspezifische Software implementieren. Die 
entsprechenden Verfahrensgegenstaende wuerden dann sowohl in dem ASIC 
als auch in dem System aus Computer plus funktionsspezifische 
Software ablaufen.

Die Erfindung ist in allen Faellen die Lehre, die sich in den 
Patentanspruechen ausdrueckt. Da hier physikalische "Signale" 
transferiert und prozessiert werden, habe ich nicht den geringsten 
Zweifel, dass es sich um eine "technische Lehre zum Handeln" handelt.

> Die Erfindung Musik auf Musikinstrumenten, und Rechnen auf
> Rechenmaschinen zumachen, hat sicher "Technizität", ist für
> sich aber kaum patentwürdig.

Das kommt auf den Einzelfall an. Wenn ein Musikinstrument 
ausdruecklich dafuer gemacht ist, durch einen im Prinzip objektiv 
simplen Bedienvorgang (z.B. sequentielle Betaetigung von Tasten) alle 
Musikstuecke eines Harmoniesystems darauf spielen zu koennen (das 
Patentrecht ist blind fuer subjektive Leistungen, also die z.B. fuer 
subjektive Schwierigkeit, das Intrument mit eigenen Haenden _richtig_ 
zu spielen, so dass es sich hoeren laesst), dann kann ich darin 
keinen erfinderischen Schritt erkennen. 

Auf einem Computer kann man zwar auch alle Rechenoperationen machen, 
aber dies ist nicht nur mit subjektiven Schwierigkeiten (s.o.) 
verbunden, sondern auch mit objektiven: Wenn ich mit dem Computer ein 
gegebenes Problem loesen will, z.B. eine Rolltreppe zu steuern, 
genuegt es nicht, eine vorgegebene "Partitur" in die Tastatur zu 
haemmern; der v. Neumannsche Universalrechner ist - ich sagte es 
bereits in einem frueheren Posting - als endliche "Inkarnation" einer 
Turing-Maschine ungleich maechtiger als jedes Musikinstrument. Sein 
Moeglichkeitsraum ist ungleich groesser. In diesem ungleich 
groesseren Moeglichkeitsraum bestehen vielfaeltige Moeglichkeiten 
fuer Problemloesungen, die nicht im patentrechtlichen Sinne 
"naheliegend" sind und die deshalb einen erfinderischen Schritt 
beinhalten.  

> Soll nun durch Beifügen einer ziemlich simplen Idee ohne eigene
> Erfindungshöhe eine nichttriviale Erfindung, deren Wesen gänzlich im
> Bereich der Musik bzw. Mathematik liegt, plötzlich "Technizität" haben
> und damit patentierbar sein? 

Fuer die Patentfaehigkeit ist _kumulativ_ Technizitaet plus 
Erfindungshoehe erforderlich. Fuer eine triviale Anwendung eines 
Computers im Rahmen einer CII darf es kein Patent geben.

Im patentrechtlichen Sinne ist die aesthetische Komponente der Musik 
nicht greifbar. 

--AHH


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