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Re: Programmiererethik, geistiges Eigentum und Swpat
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- Subject: Re: Programmiererethik, geistiges Eigentum und Swpat
- From: "Axel H Horns" <horns@ipjur.com>
- Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:09:47 +0200
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On 24 Jul 2002, at 22:07, Martin Uecker wrote:
> die ganze Diskussion von Erfindungshöhe ist hier irrelavant.
Haeh? Wer bestimmt das?
>Es geht nur darum, ob JPEG einen technischen Effekt hat.
Wie kommen wir jetzt gerade auf JPEG? Na gut.
> Dein Argument war:
>
> CII haben schon allein dadurch "Technizität", weil eine
> CPU Energie verbraucht.
>
> JPEG als CII hat also "Technizität".
>
> Mein Gegenargument war:
>
> MII hätten dann auch "Technizität", weil ein
> Musikinstrument Energie verbraucht.
Es ist hier ueberhaupt nicht geklaert worden, was "MIIs" sein sollen.
Ich habe in einem Posting gefragt, wie denn ein konkreter
Beispielspatentanspruch fuer eine "MII" aussehen soll.
> Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII hat also "Technizität".
Das habe ich nie behauptet. Es ist auch garnicht beantwortbar, ob
"Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII" technisch sei oder nicht. Ich weiss
ueberhaupt nicht, was konkret denn "Sonatenhauptsatzform als MII"
sein soll. Schreib doch mal einen entsprechenden Patentanspruch auf!
> Das ist absurd.
_Was_ soll denn absurd sein?
> Der Grund, warum das absurd ist (in beiden Fällen), ist folgender:
>
> Das Wesen der Sonatenhauptsatzform bzw. von JPEG ist gänzlich
> ohne "Technizität". Das eine ist Musik, das andere Mathematik.
Hmmm... also, ich weiss nicht, was das "Wesen" von JPEG ist. Dem
Patentrecht ist es auch vollig egal, ob da ein "Wesen" west oder
nicht oder was.
Faktum hinsichtlich JPEG ist, dass es in den USA in Patent US
4,698,672 A mit Anmeldetag 27. Oktober 1986 gibt, bei dem sich
mindestens ein Patentanspruch auf einen Computer lesen laesst, der
eine JPEG-Codierung/Decodierung vornimmt. Ob das ueberhaupt sachlich
zutrifft, ist aber umstritten; moeglicherweise betreffen die
Ansprueche auch nur verlustfreie Kompressionen ausserhalb von JPEG.
Hier nochmal die unabhaengigen Patentansprueche aus diesem Patent:
------------------------------- CUT ------------------------------
1. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital signals
have first values, second values and other values, to reduce the
amount of data utilized to represent the digital signals and to form
statistically coded signals such that the more frequently occurring
values of digital signals are represented by shorter code lengths and
the less frequently occurring values of digital signals are
represented by longer code lengths, comprising,
forming first runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by said
second value,
forming second runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by one
of said other values.
[...]
6. A method for processing input signals to reduce the amount of data
utilized to represent the input signals, the steps comprising,
processing the input signals to form processed signals where the
processed signals are digital numbers having first values, second
values, and other values,
coding each digital number to form statistically coded signals such
that the more frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are
represented by shorter code lengths and the less frequently occurring
values of coded signals are represented by longer code lengths, said
coding including,
forming first runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive first values followed by said second value in a digital
number,
forming second runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive first values followed by one of said other values in the
digital number.
[...]
12. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital
signals have first values, second values and other values, where the
processing reduces the amount of data utilized to represent the
digital signals and where the processing forms statistically coded
signals such that the more frequently occurring values of digital
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values of digital signals are represented by
longer code lengths, comprising,
forming a first code value representing a set of said first values
followed by said second value,
forming a second code value representing a set of said first values
followed by one or more of said other values.
13. A method for processing digital signals to reduce the amount of
data utilized to represent the digital signals, the steps comprising,
processing the digital signals to form processed signals where the
processed signals are multivalued digital numbers and have first
values, second values, . . . , j-values, (j+1)-values, . . . , n-
values for j ranging from 1 to n, and have other values,
coding said processed signals to form statistically coded signals
such that the more frequently occurring values of the processed
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values of coded signals are represented by
longer code lengths, said coding including,
forming j.sup.th runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by said
j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,
forming additional runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by any of
said other values.
[...]
25. An apparatus for processing digital signals, where the digital
signals have first values, second values and other values, to reduce
the amount of data utilized to represent the digital signals and to
form statistically coded signals such that the more frequently
occurring values of digital signals are represented by shorter code
lengths and the less frequently occurring values of digital signals
are represented by longer code lengths, comprising,
means for forming first runlength code values representing the number
of consecutive first values of said digital signals followed by said
second value,
means for forming second runlength code values representing the
number of consecutive first values of said digital signals followed
by one of said other values.
[...]
30. An apparatus for processing input signals to reduce the amount of
data utilized to represent the input signals, the apparatus
comprising,
means for processing the input signals to form processed signals
where the processed signals are digital numbers having first values,
second values, and other values,
means for coding each digital number to form statistically coded
signals such that the more frequently occurring values in the digital
numbers are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are represented by
longer code lengths, said means for coding including,
means for forming first runlength code values representing the number
of consecutive first values followed by said second value in a
digital number,
means for forming second runlength code values representing the
number of consecutive first values followed by one of said other
values in the digital number.
[...]
38. A method for processing digital signals, where the digital
signals have first values, second values and other values, where the
processing reduces the amount of data utilized to represent the
digital signals and where the processing forms statistically coded
signals such that the more frequently occurring values of digital
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values of digital signals are represented by
longer code lengths, where
a first code value is formed representing a set of said first values
followed by said second value,
a second code value is formed representing a set of said first values
followed by one or more of said other values
comprising,
decoding said first code value to form a set of said first values
followed by said second value,
decoding said second code value to form a set of said first values
followed by one or more of said other values.
39. A method for processing digital signals to reduce the amount of
data utilized to represent the digital signals, the steps comprising,
processing the digital signals to form processed signals where the
processed signals are multivalued digital numbers and have first
values, second values, . . . , j-values, (j+1)-values, . . . , n-
values for j ranging from 1 to n, and have other values,
coding said processed signals to form statistically coded signals
such that the more frequently occurring values of the processed
signals are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values of coded signals are represented by
longer code lengths, said coding including,
forming j.sup.th runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by said
j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,
forming additional runlength code values representing the number of
consecutive processed signals of said first value followed by any of
said other values
transmitting said j.sup.th runlength code values and said additional
runlength code values to a receiver to form received signal including
received j.sup.th runlength code values and received additional
runlength code values,
decoding said received signals to form decoded signals, said decoding
including,
decoding said received j.sup.th runlength code values to form a
number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value followed by
said j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,
decoding said received additional runlength code values to form a
number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value followed by
any of said other values.
42. An apparatus for processing input signals to reduce the amount of
data utilized to represent the input signals, the apparatus
comprising,
means for processing the input signals to form processed signals
where the processed signals are digital numbers having first values,
second values, and other values,
means for coding each digital number to form statistically coded
signals such that the more frequently occurring values in the digital
numbers are represented by shorter code lengths and the less
frequently occurring values in the digital numbers are represented by
longer code lengths, said means for coding including,
means for forming first runlength code values representing the number
of consecutive first values followed by said second value in a
digital number,
means for forming second runlength code values representing the
number of consecutive first values followed by one of said other
values in the digital number,
means for transmitting said j.sup.th runlength code values and said
additional runlength code values to a receiver to form received
signal including received j.sup.th runlength code values and received
additional runlength code values,
means for decoding said received signals to form decoded signals,
said means for decoding including,
means for decoding said received j.sup.th runlength code values to
form a number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value
followed by said j+1 value, for each value of j from 1 to n,
means for decoding said received additional runlength code values to
form a number of consecutive decoded signals of said first value
followed by any of said other values.
------------------------------- CUT ------------------------------
Wenn ich mir diese Ansprueche so ansehe, scheinen sie mir saemtlich
zum Ambivalenzbereich der computerimplementierbaren Erfindungen zu
gehoeren, die irgendwo zwischen den nicht computerimplementierbaren
Erfindungen ("Pleulstange") und den computer-implementierten
Erfindungen ("Computer+Funktionalitaetsangabe") stehen.
Erlaeuterungen zum Ambivalenzbereich finden sich im Lutterbeck-
Gutachten.
Die Gegenstände der obigen Vorrichtungsansprueche lassen sich im
Prinzip sowohl durch eine spezielle Hardware (ASIC) als auch durch
Computer plus funktionsspezifische Software implementieren. Die
entsprechenden Verfahrensgegenstaende wuerden dann sowohl in dem ASIC
als auch in dem System aus Computer plus funktionsspezifische
Software ablaufen.
Die Erfindung ist in allen Faellen die Lehre, die sich in den
Patentanspruechen ausdrueckt. Da hier physikalische "Signale"
transferiert und prozessiert werden, habe ich nicht den geringsten
Zweifel, dass es sich um eine "technische Lehre zum Handeln" handelt.
> Die Erfindung Musik auf Musikinstrumenten, und Rechnen auf
> Rechenmaschinen zumachen, hat sicher "Technizität", ist für
> sich aber kaum patentwürdig.
Das kommt auf den Einzelfall an. Wenn ein Musikinstrument
ausdruecklich dafuer gemacht ist, durch einen im Prinzip objektiv
simplen Bedienvorgang (z.B. sequentielle Betaetigung von Tasten) alle
Musikstuecke eines Harmoniesystems darauf spielen zu koennen (das
Patentrecht ist blind fuer subjektive Leistungen, also die z.B. fuer
subjektive Schwierigkeit, das Intrument mit eigenen Haenden _richtig_
zu spielen, so dass es sich hoeren laesst), dann kann ich darin
keinen erfinderischen Schritt erkennen.
Auf einem Computer kann man zwar auch alle Rechenoperationen machen,
aber dies ist nicht nur mit subjektiven Schwierigkeiten (s.o.)
verbunden, sondern auch mit objektiven: Wenn ich mit dem Computer ein
gegebenes Problem loesen will, z.B. eine Rolltreppe zu steuern,
genuegt es nicht, eine vorgegebene "Partitur" in die Tastatur zu
haemmern; der v. Neumannsche Universalrechner ist - ich sagte es
bereits in einem frueheren Posting - als endliche "Inkarnation" einer
Turing-Maschine ungleich maechtiger als jedes Musikinstrument. Sein
Moeglichkeitsraum ist ungleich groesser. In diesem ungleich
groesseren Moeglichkeitsraum bestehen vielfaeltige Moeglichkeiten
fuer Problemloesungen, die nicht im patentrechtlichen Sinne
"naheliegend" sind und die deshalb einen erfinderischen Schritt
beinhalten.
> Soll nun durch Beifügen einer ziemlich simplen Idee ohne eigene
> Erfindungshöhe eine nichttriviale Erfindung, deren Wesen gänzlich im
> Bereich der Musik bzw. Mathematik liegt, plötzlich "Technizität" haben
> und damit patentierbar sein?
Fuer die Patentfaehigkeit ist _kumulativ_ Technizitaet plus
Erfindungshoehe erforderlich. Fuer eine triviale Anwendung eines
Computers im Rahmen einer CII darf es kein Patent geben.
Im patentrechtlichen Sinne ist die aesthetische Komponente der Musik
nicht greifbar.
--AHH
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