Re: [atlarge-discuss] Hatred and Outreach

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Eric and all stakeholders or other interested parties,

  Attacks of various types are not necessarily a demonstration of
Hatred.

  Groups are made up of individuals.  Reasonable attacks on what
those individuals and/or groups are to be expected and indeed
perhaps necessary in order to expound upon and issue or a
point of one kind or another.  These sorts of attacks are not
necessarily a expression of Hatred.

eric@hi-tek.com wrote:

> I will stand up and die, quickly, to stop any group hatred against another group.
>
> If this group stands for the hatred of ICANN, Lawyers, Doctors, Gays, Latinos,
> Communists or democrats,
> Then I will not quit the group but if need be die destroying it.
>
> Attacks on JW are personal and different.  But attacks on whole blocks of individuals
> is sick.
> Vint Cerf is and engineer, Should we then hate Karl and Jefsey?
>
> I am most bothered by this attack on groups.
>
> Eric
>
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> > Eric and all stakeholders or other interested parties,
> >
> >   Hatred is fundamentally wrong.  Hatred is crippling to positive
> > progress, unproductive, disruptive, and cannot effect positive
> > change, which is needed in many areas...
> >
> > eric@hi-tek.com wrote:
> >
> > > Whoa Bro,
> > >
> > > Hatred is harmful and contageous.
> > > Please look at the fingers pointed at you when you point one in anger.
> > > I cannot know your life but can feel your pain and hatred when you write.
> > >
> > > Hating all in the legal profession and all in the medical profession is a little
> > > troublesome.
> > > Please limit your hatred to a few that you know, lest some be justified in hating
> > > everyone like you, because of your actions.
> > >
> > > This path should not be followed and not tolerated by our civilized group.
> > > I do not know this person who calls themself starwalker
> > > but I can register hate mail when i see it.
> > > Be careful here folks.
> > >
> > > eric
> > >
> > > **star*walker** wrote:
> > >
> > > > Saturday, August 10, 2002 * 9:49 PM EDT USA
> > > >
> > > > [My responses are interwoven below.]
> > > >
> > > > At 08:42 PM 8/9/2002, Bruce Young wrote (in RE: [atlarge-discuss] ...the
> > > > last several days' posts):
> > > >
> > > > >Joey wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >I've acquired exquisite perception, sensitivity, intuition, compassion
> > > > > >and actual knowledge of-and-about a few things, people and "politics" chief
> > > > > >among them.
> > > > >
> > > > >So, I take it, you don't buy the argument that "lawyer" is the larval stage
> > > > >of "politician", which is an annoying yet marginally useful insect we are
> > > > >all force to live with?  :)
> > > >
> > > > In spite of my setting out to become one, and still having affection for
> > > > THE LAW, I have even greater disdain for the legal profession (parasitic
> > > > monopoly) than your joke would suggest, which really set me to laughing.
> > > >
> > > > I have equal disdain for the parasitic medical monopoly and the
> > > > pharmaceutical monopoly to name but a few. The list is endless... of
> > > > self-serving, government sanctioned and enforced, profiteering, high seas
> > > > pirates! All of this is explained away as being for our own "good." Yeah,
> > > > right!
> > > >
> > > > Were it left to me I would "de-regulate" every last one of them. If an
> > > > Underwriter's Laboratory certification (non-governmental) is good enough to
> > > > protect me from being killed by my own household appliances then I would
> > > > regard their certification as good enough to protect me from being killed
> > > > by my doctor, my lawyer and my Indian Chief (Native American, that is)
> > > > without government dictating and telling me what is or is not a legitimate
> > > > practice of those professions, and thereby creating MONOPOLY. I am then
> > > > free to use UL certified professionals or not, and we'd truly have a free
> > > > market.
> > > >
> > > > As it is now, we have too few doctors and nurses, way too many lawyers, and
> > > > probably just about the right number of Indian Chiefs because we don't
> > > > regulate those, at least not yet.
> > > >
> > > > Whereas "caveat emptor" (buyer beware) is a cherished legal principle, we
> > > > are not supposed to apply it lawyers, judges and politicians. It would harm
> > > > the social fabric we are told.
> > > >
> > > > ;-)
> > > >
> > > > >Seriously, we could use legal assistance to help make us a legal non-profit
> > > > >agency!  Talk to Joanna!
> > > >
> > > > Any legal secretary can do that in less than a half-hour, and her boss will
> > > > get to charge you big bucks for it. If she tries to offer the service
> > > > directly at real-cost she will be arrested.
> > > >
> > > > I've incorporated at least three non-profit organizations and one
> > > > for-profit (which could just as well have been non-profit ;-) ) in my life.
> > > > That's very simple. Meet the letter-of-law requirements of a given
> > > > jurisdiction.
> > > >
> > > > The hard part is writing a substantial charter, though a brief one is
> > > > typically acceptable, laying out the organizations purposes that typically
> > > > have more to do with taxation issues than anything.
> > > >
> > > > The even harder part is writing the by-laws, unless you want to settle on
> > > > the typical corporate (profit and non-profit) boiler plate that vests all
> > > > authority in a board of directors.
> > > >
> > > > May I respectfully suggest given our international character and claims
> > > > that we consider incorporating in The Hague. Unless there are extenuating
> > > > circumstances requiring incorporation in the U.S.A. or elsewhere I think
> > > > incorporation in the Hague or Geneva or would be emotively meaningful for
> > > > an international organization.
> > > >
> > > > Other than for tax considerations, the place of incorporation is above all
> > > > symbolic. Other than for a mailing address for resident agent to receive
> > > > legal notices no one need actually be there.
> > > >
> > > > In this day and age we plan to operate it from all around the world, do we
> > > > not?!
> > > >
> > > > > >Second, it is simply at the least bad form not to have published the
> > > > > >complete panel vote with all candidates' names and panel member votes for
> > > > > >each.
> > > > >
> > > > >I assume this comments on the selection of the Chair by the Panel members?
> > > > >I agree that this would be useful info, but the selection of the chair was
> > > > >the panel's duty & responsibility.  That said, why cloud the decision by
> > > > >posting the vote data here, thereby causing members to thrash around about
> > > > >it?  They chose, we need to accept their choice and move on.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I wish I had been clear I was talking about the election of the
> > > > "chair" by the panelists.
> > > >
> > > > And I wish you would meet me head on with regard to my statement later on
> > > > in the same paragraph, the meat of it as far as I am concerned: "The way
> > > > the results were announced, and still so far un-corrected, omitting the
> > > > non-winning candidates' names and voters is in my conviction disrespectful
> > > > and devaluing of those individuals."
> > > >
> > > > It is the simplest matter of fairness and justice and it troubles me that
> > > > impartial others on this list (to the point of my catching up on my
> > > > E-mails) have not spoken to this.
> > > >
> > > > The most useful way to look at any well-spirited honorable election is that
> > > > there aren't winners and losers. Rather, someone is chosen and another is
> > > > deferred (in a choice for one position). There ought not be any shame or
> > > > hurt in that, instead pride in holding up for admiration, gratitude and
> > > > recognition those willing to stand for service, regardless of the outcome.
> > > > We all NEED affirmation regardless of circumstances and issues, and we need
> > > > to gracefully and graciously give it to each other.
> > > >
> > > > Everything is fluid, nothing is permanent, everything is change, and
> > > > today's chosen will be tomorrow's deferred or retired, and today's deferred
> > > > will be tomorrow's chosen, if not retired.
> > > >
> > > > >Disclaimer: I nominated and voted for both Vittorio and Joanna (among
> > > > >others), knowing that they have two very different visions for the At Large,
> > > > >but knowing that both visions deserved representation on our panel. But even
> > > > >if someone else had been chosen I would equally support them now, because
> > > > >the Panel has the authority to choose and made their choice, and I have the
> > > > >responsibility as a member to honor it!
> > > >
> > > > I see. You voted early... and often. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > > >Third, one of the burdens taken on by each of the new panelists, whether
> > > > > >they are aware of it or not or whether they are comfortable with it or not
> > > > > >or whether they like it or not, is to read every last post of every member
> > > > > >to this list and respond to the merits of suggestions and proposals made in
> > > > > >any such posts, however lame brained or "late to the party" they may think
> > > > > >an offering is within the limits of this marvelous near-instantaneous
> > > > >medium.
> > > > >
> > > > >Agreed.  In a flat organization like the one I hope we're building, everyone
> > > > >in the membership has an advisory role that they need to take seriously.  If
> > > > >they did, we might have fewer "flame wars" and more reasoned discourse here
> > > > >(hint!)
> > > >
> > > > I am growing increasingly to see just the challenge in keeping up with
> > > > reading the sheer volume of E-mail on this list. Right now I'm feeling
> > > > overwhelmed, without even feeling the obliged to respond to things that
> > > > aren't directed to me.
> > > >
> > > > I feel myself already behind in following up on my volunteering for a task
> > > > group on verification and can much better understand the burden I asserted
> > > > the panelists have. They are obviously going to need lots of help.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers!
> > > >
> > > > /s/ Joey
> > > >
> > > > Put your action where your... err... speech is! Create your personal
> > > > volunteer profile at http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=19
> > > > and tell everyone what you have done, and/or can do, and/or are willing to
> > > > do -- NOW! :-)
> > > > (Please at least book mark the above link.)
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > Regards,
> > --
> > Jeffrey A. Williams
> > Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> > Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208

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