RE: [atlarge-discuss] No quorum

["Hugh Blair" <hblair@hotfootmail.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Sherwood
>
> There cannot be accountability without authority, yet I
> constantly read that the panel has zero authority to do
> anything.  It seems that we expect them to accomplish
> certain tasks while being subjected to a barrage of criticism
> and complaint from every direction.  It seems that we have
> eleven slaves and 1000 slavemasters (even if some
> slavemasters are more vocal than others).
> This is unacceptable and needs to change immediately.

And you expect the Panel members to operate without
the members giving them any advice? That's like asking
me to vote for a Senator and then ignore him/her and
not continue to voice my opinion. If you think everything
you've read is a "complaint", then you're wrong. And even
if it was, isn't it 'normal' for people to agree quietly
and yet disagree loudly? And your next paragraph directly
contridicts the one above.

Besides, what's being discussed in this thread is their
*lack* of activity on a specific issue. Don't make a
straw-man out of these messages.

> It is reasonable for members to express their views on any task being
> performed by the panel.  It is also reasonable for the panel
> to read and consider (and, if necessary, reconsider and reconsider)
> those comments.  A process which will naturally lead to them being
> accused of failing to make a decision quickly enough.

Uh, how about even VOTING as making a decision?  Is that
really too much to ask?

> Add to this an environment where any decision is
> the wrong decision for someone, and where the panel is
> repeatedly told they have no authority to make a decision without
> a vote to decide whether or not they have the authority to make the
> decision they made...  and we have devolved into the ridiculous.

The "rediculous" is that the Panel can't even vote on their
own decisions.

> It is patently impossible for the panel to satisfy opposite
> points of view, or for that matter to perform any of the tasks
> required of them, if they remain subject to this type of daily
> (hourly) harassment.

<sarcasm> (violins playing softly) </sarcasm>

> Until they prove me wrong, I have total faith in the people
> that we elected do this difficult work for us.  I believe that,
> if we harass them to the point where they are unable to work,
> and eventually step down because the "effort-to-accomplishment
> ratio" is just too great, we will achieve NOTHING.

They have already proved themselves incapibile of making decisions.
What more do you want?

> If a member of this organization has the authority to propose
> a solution to this sad state of affairs, I Propose that:
>
>     WE, the members of this group that is currently known as
> ICANATLARGE, do accord the members of our duly elected organizing
> panel the authority to accomplish, without the requirement of
> additional permissions or constraints from the membership, those
> tasks required of them in outline. Namely:
>
> 1) complete and provide to the membership for discussion and eventual
> ratification, a mission statement that simply but clearly declares the
> purpose and method of our organization.
> 2) complete and provide to the membership for discussion and eventual
> ratification a set of by-laws under which the organization may be
> incorporated.
>
> 3) complete and provide to the membership for discussion and eventual
> ratification a set of rules under which the organization's
> website should be managed and the appointment of a webmaster.
>
> 4) research and present to the membership for discussion and eventual
> ratification a recommendation for the type of incorporation
> that we should undertake and the location best suited to
> that incorporation.
>
> 5) research and present to the membership for discussion and eventual
> ratification the best methodology for dealing with membership polls,
> ratification votes, votes on other issues properly raised and
> appropriately supported, and elections.
>
> 6) arrange on behalf of our organization the process for
> registration or transfer of any trademarks and domain names to
> whatever legal entity is formed as the result of count 4) above.

I'm with you up to here.

> It is further proposed that:

> 7) while the authority hereby bestowed is limited to the
> above listed tasks, the panel may at any time request additional
> authority (e.g. to perform the incorporation of our organization
> according to the ratified will of the membership).  And, that if
> granted by a majority of voting members, such authority will not be
> questioned unless it is removed by similar process.

This won't fly. This organization should never allow a process to
not be questioned.

> 8) it is specifically confirmed in this proposal that the
> above limited authority and protection from constraint does not
> prevent the panel from appointing working groups or other advisory
> devices and does not prevent the panel from seeking membership input
> on any issue, directly or through the atlarge discuss list. Nor does
> it require such procedures.

Still not flying. There is no way the Panel members should be insulated
from any "membership input on any issue."

> 9) the tasks in count 1) through 6) plus any additional tasks are not
> necessarily in order of priority but that the panel will, by
> weekly report, advise the membership of the progress being made on
> each count and an approximate time for expected completion.

I'd agree to 1 through 6 with number (7) being:

7) Any Panel member that hasn't voted on the issues before it in
the balloting that ended 2-Oct-2002, and doesn't vote on the
next Panel ballot, whenever that may be, is automatically removed
from the Panel and a replacement shall be sought from the list
of members that voted in the last election. The need for a
replacement shall immediately be announced, and a vote on this
replacement shall be held within 14 days of a Panel members
removal.

Fix, if possible, #s 7,8 & 9, and add this one, and I'll be
on your side.

Hugh


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