RE: [atlarge-discuss] Results from "URGENT: Guidance requested" mini-ballot

[<bruce@barelyadequate.info>]

Outstanding!  I don't have time to comment tonight, but I'll work on it
tomorrow at work and send it when I get home.

Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
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|  -----Original Message-----
|  From: espresso@e-scape.net [mailto:espresso@e-scape.net]
|  Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 5:18 PM
|  To: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
|  Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Results from "URGENT: Guidance requested"
|  mini-ballot
|  Importance: High
|
|
|  Voted: Joey Borda, Micheal Sherrill, Hugh Blair, Stephen Waters,
|  Jeff Williams, David Farrar, DVB Rao, Bruce Young, Holger Steiner,
|  Richard Henderson - Total: 10
|  Abstention: Jan Siren, who agreed to act according to the results
|              since he is in the same position as I
|  Commented offlist: 3 - see below
|
|  >---Ballot starts---
|  >
|  >I vote to have Judyth Mermelstein do the following with
|  >the membership list information provided to her:
|  >
|  >  0 [  ] discard it unread
|
|  >  0 [  ] retain it, encrypted, for backup purposes only
|
|  >  7 [XXXXXXX] retain it for use during the upcoming election as a
|  >         means of distributing notices to all members
|
|  >  8 [XXXXXXXX] retain it for use during the coming election as
|  >         a voters' list against which incoming ballots should
|  >         be checked
|
|  >  3 [XXX] retain it and keep it updated using the FTP access
|  >         information provided to me
|
|  ******* NOTE: These actions should be taken *only* for this current
|  ******* process - the process of re-electing a new Panel. That
|  ******* new panel should then determine who holds the list.
|
|  for this election only, per Hugh's suggestion.
|
|  >  3 [XXX] release it to Joop in order to update the ICANNATLARGE.COM
|  >         database and the list used by the Polling Booth
|  One said [Insert: "as soon as possible after a panel election, and with
|  the sanction of that elected panel"]
|
|  >  1 [X] release it to Jefsey and Bruce for use as they see fit
|  >         in creating and operating a separate ICANNATLARGE.ORG
|  >         voting application
|
|  >  1 [ X ] release it to all of the most recent list of Panelists
|
|  >  2 [ XX ] Other: please specify.
|
|  *******  Joop should send you and Jan any address he has that
|  *******  he feels are also members and those addresses/names
|  *******  should be merged/added to your 'master' list.
|
|  >  Specification as follows:
|  >
|  >  Retain the information while seeking a neutral third party under
|  >contract in which the security and privacy of the members in that
|  >list is guaranteed under a Nondisclosure provision.  Use of
|  >said data prescribed in said contract to include, non release
|  >of said membership list to any party other than the contracted
|  >party and elected officers of the to be formed organization
|  >now known as ICANNATLARGE.ORG with each officer
|  >signing the same nondisclosure agreement/contract, to be in
|  >effect in perpetuity, without exception.
|
|  >
|  >---Ballot ends---
|
|  Additional comments not on the ballot:
|
|  ---
|  >The more the merrier, I don't see any problem with compiling all list
|  >from
|  >all available sources. For fact, Joanne and Myself tried very hard to
|  >even
|  >include the original 76k in such a list. (in the end Icann had control
|  >of
|  >all the registrants email addresses).
|  >
|  >Jan and You should do your best to include everybody possible, and
|  >make to
|  >available to those who maintain and support this forum.
|  >
|  >James Khan
|  ---
|
|  ---Jan Siren:
|  >Judyth, you have done an admirable job of describing events to date.
|  >I
|  >confirm, from my own experience, all that you have reported.  Nothing
|  >*I*
|  >have done with the list so far invalidates nor precludes any of the
|  >ballot
|  >options you presented.  Further, I pledge to abide by the outcome of
|  >your
|  >poll (even if the March 10th response date, which by the way provides
|  >an
|  >appropriate span of time, precludes Rio for example).
|  >
|  >I should mention, for clarification, that the mailing list as you and
|  >I have
|  >received it may be ideal for spamming, but is short of the mark for
|  >the
|  >tedious process of poll-watching, since it isn't alphabetized.  I
|  >mentioned
|  >previously to Vittorio that I was going ahead with alphabetizing the
|  >list on
|  >my own (low tech skills are adequate!).
|  ---
|
|  ---Joop Teernstra:
|  >I do not know how the list that Vittorio gave you looks, but the
|  >website
|  >itself provides a way to sort the member names in alphabetic order.
|  >(three options: alphabetical, by country and chronological. Default is
|  >chronological)
|  ---
|
|  OFFLIST ANONYMOUS COMMENTS
|
|  1. >Are you prepared to receive requests from Internet users...asking
|  if they are on that list ?
|  >
|  >Will you be personally liable for including people...who may not
|  >desire to be on such a list or know they are on it ?
|  >
|  >Could the reason be that the list is kept secret to hide the fact that
|  >the people who constructed the list added people
|  >without their knowledge ?...or allowed people to be added who are not
|  >real people or who provided no credentials ?
|  >
|  >As an aside, the recent list of trusted and untrusted people is
|  >interesting...there are numerous people NOT listed
|  >in either category, and likely fall into the list of the **most**
|  >untrusted people. It was interesting to note which names
|  >were NOT on that list. Does that indicate that the general public is
|  >not aware ?...or, have the lists been artificially
|  >manipulated ?
|  >
|  >...at the end of the day, there are 160-bits in the packet
|  >headers...you can not manipulate those...software does that...
|
|
|  2. Another correspondent whose name is withheld by request
|     wrote to me at some length on various aspects of our
|     problems but suggested the following be done:
|
|     a) ask Karl Auerbach to resume his former role as "keeper
|        of the membership list" (something he had apparently
|        done with everyone's blessing when the group started,
|        before I came on the scene) since he is demonstrably
|        reliable and trustworthy
|
|     b) ask Elizabeth Portneuve if she would kindly run the
|        election for us, since she, too, is trustworthy and
|        knows how to handle the process already
|
|     c) (later) add these questions (and others) to a Polling
|        Booth vote before the election process starts so as
|        to hold the elections in the manner most acceptable
|        to the membership.
|
|  Finally, Jefsey Morfin did not fill in the ballot but wrote at
|  length and we exchanged several messages. I'll try to
|  summarize his main points:
|
|     a) as he stated in a message to the list, the election
|        should be held using Joop's Polling Booth, with 5
|        "watchdogs" including himself, and he should be given
|        administrative access to the Polling Booth
|
|     b) since I had no right to get the list from Vittorio,
|        I should have sent it to him without asking the rest
|        of you what to do
|
|     c) as a "watchdog" [which I am not yet since we haven't
|        yet agreed on what we will be doing when with which
|        process(es)] I not only should remain impartial
|        during the election period but also should have known
|        I had lost my right to speak my mind to you about
|        anything even now
|
|     d) I am personally responsible for the "killing of the
|        atlarge" (presumably for the opinions I have voiced
|        here on the need for a well-thought-out and agreed-upon
|        election process, and your guidance before I do
|        anything at all with the membership list)
|
|  I'm afraid I've had to disagree with him about these points,
|  but I will gladly step back from the "watchdog" role if it
|  entails a vow of silence or if I have lost the trust of the
|  membership.
|
|  I *think* I've got all the votes tabulated correctly but I
|  admit I'm very tired so I'd appreciate it if anyone who was
|  left out above would let us know.
|
|  The "turnout" was rather disappointing since I had hoped more
|  of you would let us all know what you think and that more of the
|  30-or-so people who subscribe but don't post might have
|  contacted me off-list with their opinions.
|
|  But one can only count the ballots of the people who voted and
|  assume they are representative. What I can infer from the
|  results is that
|
|  - Most voters want the list used for sending notices and as
|    a voters' list for this upcoming election.
|
|  - No voters want me to throw away the file or encrypt it
|    for use as a backup only.
|
|  - There is no real agreement on anything else.
|
|  Given these results and Jan having already undertaken the labour
|  of comparing Vittorio's list to Joop's and signalled a
|  reluctance to get involved with e-mailing notices, I hereby
|  volunteer to do whatever e-mailing the group decides is
|  appropriate within the election process it will choose,
|  and therefore de-volunteer for any task which involves
|  contact with ballots other than ensuring that they come from
|  registered members.
|
|  Hoping this will be found satisfactory and awaiting your comments,
|
|  Judyth
|
|
|
|  ##########################################################
|  Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
|  Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
|  ##########################################################
|  "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
|  "Un mot suffit aux sages; pour les autres, il en faut plus."
|  ##########################################################
|
|
|
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