Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Jeff Williams

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Richard and all fellow members,

  Thank you for your very good and insightful observations Richard.
But I must say that I actually spend very little of my own time
with ICANN related issues or even this forum's many and growing
number or unresolved and contentious issues that seem to bog
down forward, responsible, and useful progress.

  Most of the issues that actually effect stakeholders/users are rarely
discussed on this forum due to constant infighting and slurring.  Hence
any actual effect this fledgling organization could have had has passed
the opportune points in time which such an effect could have benefited
the members here or other stakeholders/users to their benefit as well
as the continued slurring and infighting will likely hamper any future
impact of any real effect in the near or mid term by this fledgling
organization.  Until or unless the attitudes of many here change
dramatically, this organization is likely to meet the same fate
as the IDNO/JDNO.

Richard Henderson wrote:

> I agree with Ron
>
> I just filter out anything from Larry Fuss or Albert Brickel or Yue Yue
> Fidget now, because I know in advance that it's just more JW-bashing stuff
> which I have no interest in. Holger's mails are now approaching that
> category for me, as well, and the irony is that people are claiming to
> defend the list but actually just adding to what gets in the way and needs
> deleting.
>
> It's a trap we all fall into so easily : look! I'm doing it now! This mail
> is not about DNS issues or Internet Use.
>
> My approach to Jeff Williams posts is selective. I use what I want (and I've
> gained some useful ideas and links from some of Jeff's messages) and I just
> delete what I don't want (he probably does the same for me).
>
> I have to say that Jeff Williams has posted far more information on DNS and
> ICANN than Yue Yue or Albert (whose mail accounts only seem to have been set
> up to lambast JW). Jeff's approach - over an astonishing period of time -
> has been so involved that you could call it obsessive, but that very
> approach has made him a valid ICANN participant because there are probably
> few At Large participants (in all honesty) who have devoted so much time on
> the week by week detail, ICANN posts etc etc. Out of this have come some
> very helpful insights and recollected links.
>
> I enjoy the full range of characters in this extraordinary ICANN universe,
> from Jeff to Joe Sims, from Vint to Danny, from Dan Halloran to Jefsey, from
> Joop to Nancy Victory, from Joey Borda to Denise Michel, from Esther Dyson
> to Satya Gupta, from Michael Palage to good ol' Bruce, from Hal Lubsen and
> Govinda Leopold to Domebase and Michael Froomkin. In the "Shambles" theory
> of the Universe, lateral and unexpected things happen when you just relax,
> shake the cocktail, and get involved.
>
> At the same time, while you sit back, enjoy the show, and let it all
> happen... there's also a great opportunity for really precise detailed
> definition and intellectual challenge... because the cat gets let out of the
> bag in the detail... there's too much detail for ICANN to sweep it all up
> under the carpet. At the time of the NewTLDs fiasco, I'm quite sure that
> both ICANN and Afilias wanted to sweep things under the carpet, but there
> was just too much detail to manage, and scrutiny was the weapon which showed
> them up for what they were. Jeff Williams often benefits from others using
> and re-wording his messages, but he's certainly part of the process of
> scrutiny, and I can live with him. You need to be a bit obsessive in the
> face of the smooth spin of the ICANN clique, and you have to hand it to Jeff
> that he doesn't give up!
>
> What I think *would* be more useful would be the setting of limits to the
> volume of mail anyone can post in a day, in a week, and in a month. Then if
> people contravene those limits, they are making a choice to disqualify
> themselves from participation.
>
> I oppose censorship and the impulse to control everyone. But setting out
> clearly defined rules and letting people take responsibility for their own
> participation seems fair and equal to everyone.
>
> Yrs,
>
> Richard H
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Sherwood <sherwood@islands.vi>
> To: Holger Steiner <h.steiner@scharr.de>; 'atlarge discuss list'
> <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Jeff Williams is a lying newbie
>
> > Dear Holger:
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > That would only help me personally but it would endanger new members of
> > > initially believing anything said by our resident nutball. To let him
> > > spew his dribble undisputed would be worse, IMHO, in the long run.
> >
> > Holger:
> > In the past three months, you have posted 75 times. Sixty of those posts
> > have been  about Jeff Williams (49 of them addressed directly to him and
> > copied to this list).
> >
> > With only 15 of your posts addressing issues at hand, how do you justify
> > using 80% of your bandwidth to compete with Jeff Williams? He is far
> better
> > at list saturation than you are, and will outlive your efforts as he has
> > every other attempt to beat him at his own game. (He already has taken
> over
> > 80% of your on-list life! ... Don't you feel used?)
> >
> > You may feel that you are the White Knight defending a noble cause (the
> > protection of "new members") but you are wasting your time and the time of
> > everyone that reads your JW bashing posts.  Please take your battle
> > off-list.
> >
> > Ron Sherwood.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Holger Steiner" <h.steiner@scharr.de>
> > To: "'atlarge discuss list'" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 7:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: Jeff Williams is a lying newbie
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Abel Wisman schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Holger,
> > > >
> > > > I filter out the Jeff Williams dribble, but feeds like yours are not a
> > > > very good thing for this list, please do some a favour and keep this
> > > > off-list otherwise your valuable attributions to the list run the
> chance
> > > > of being filtered out along with the drible.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest you just filter mail from JW and thus remove your peeve.
> > >
> > > I understand you, but I dont agree with you.
> > >
> > > That would only help me personally but it would endanger new members of
> > > initially believing anything said by our resident nutball. To let him
> > > spew his dribble undisputed would be worse, IMHO, in the long run.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > greetings
> > > Holger
> > >
> > > --
> > > ######################################
> > > Holger Steiner
> > > Programmer & Consultant
> > > Synchron GmbH
> > > h.steiner@synchron-is.de
> > > http://www.synchron-is.de
> > > <script>alert("Only the code gets executed, not the
> > > intentions...")</script>
> > > ######################################
> > >
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
    Pierre Abelard
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801



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