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Re: [atlarge-discuss] PASSED: motion on VOTING PROCEDURE (fwd)
Bruce and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,
Bruce Young wrote:
> Jeff Williams wrote:
>
> | Well actually yes it can and should be more open then just archives
> | of the Panel list. It should be interactive, not just a closed list.
>
> As opposed to this list, the Panel list is a "low noise" forum where the
> panel holds their discussions regarding issues we're making motions or
> voting on.
"Low Noise"??? Hummm? Well that implies that your opinion of
the members discourse and debate is "Noise". That seems to characterize
a type of moral superiority between yourself and other members. I
find that to be rather chilling and inconsistent with good democratic
values and process.
> Any decisions from this process are always announced on thge
> Discuss list. It *is* interactive for those who have rights on it, i.e. the
> Panel members.
But it is not interactive to the members. Hence it is not interactive,
open and transparent.
>
>
> Bruce Young
> Portland, Oregon USA
> byoung651@attbi.com
> http://www.barelyadequate.info
> --------------------------------------------
> Support democratic control of the Internet!
> Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> | Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 11:44 AM
> | To: Bruce Young
> | Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> | Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] PASSED: motion on VOTING PROCEDURE (fwd)
> |
> |
> | Bruce and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,
> |
> | Bruce Young wrote:
> |
> | > Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> | >
> | > | I was simply stating my concern that whatever votes
> | > | are carried out by the Panel are not done secretly or
> | > | anonymously.
> | >
> | > You can see every conversation and every vote the panel has ever had at
> | > http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-panel/
> | >
> | > Doesn't get much more open than that!
> |
> | Well actually yes it can and should be more open then just archives
> | of the Panel list. It should be interactive, not just a closed list.
> | Closed lists that are discussing or debating issues that impact the
> | members are a form of censorship. Hence they should be stamped
> | out entirely. Yes, the Panel should be completely open and
> | above board in their discussions regarding member effected
> | practices or policies, but still have inter-operational discussions
> | amongst themselves as panel members. We must be very careful
> | here too though, so as not to breed distrust. That can be difficult.
> |
> | >
> | >
> | > Bruce Young
> | > Portland, Oregon USA
> | > bruce@barelyadequate.info
> | > http://www.barelyadequate.info
> | > --------------------------------------------
> | > Support democratic control of the Internet!
> | > Go to http://www.icannatlarge.com and Join ICANN At Large!
> | >
> | > | -----Original Message-----
> | > | From: Sotiris Sotiropoulos [mailto:sotiris@hermesnetwork.com]
> | > | Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:49 AM
> | > | To: Norbert Klein
> | > | Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
> | > | Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] PASSED: motion on VOTING
> | PROCEDURE (fwd)
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | Norbert et al.,
> | > |
> | > | I think you misunderstood my message. I do not think the entire
> | > | membership must
> | > | needs vote on every issue. I was simply stating my concern that
> | > | whatever votes
> | > | are carried out by the Panel are not done secretly or
> | > | anonymously. The Panel
> | > | ought/must vote in a public fashion, such that the membership
> | > | may know which
> | > | Panel member voted for or against what position.
> | > |
> | > | Sincerely,
> | > |
> | > | Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> | > |
> | > | Norbert Klein wrote:
> | > |
> | > | > > Hans et al.,
> | > | > >
> | > | > > Am I to understand then that this means the Paenl will vote
> | > | in secret and
> | > | > > aonymously? If this is the case, I strenuously object.
> | > | > >
> | > | > > Sincerely,
> | > | > >
> | > | > > Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> | > | >
> | > | > Can you please help me to understand your concern.
> | > | >
> | > | > What do you mean by "in secret and anonymously" when there is
> | > | a transparent
> | > | > procedure how votes among the panel members will proceed, and
> | > | how they will
> | > | > be counted etc.
> | > | >
> | > | > Or do you object that the Panel has a procedure how the panel
> | > | can come to a
> | > | > common opinion - proposing that everything should be discussed
> | > | and voted by
> | > | > the full membership? I cannot think that this could work,
> | > | given that we have
> | > | > already 1000 members and hopefully more in future.
> | > | >
> | > | > Then the question would be what will be discussed AND voted by
> | > | the Panel,
> | > | > and what should be discussed by the full membership.
> | > | >
> | > | > But maybe I misunderstood what you meant. Please clarify.
> | > | >
> | > | > Norbert
> | > | >
> | > | > --
> | > | > Norbert Klein
> | > | > Open Forum of Cambodia: www.forum.org.kh
> | > | >
> | > | >
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> |
> | Regards,
> | --
> | Jeffrey A. Williams
> | Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
> | CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
> | Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> | E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> | Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
> | Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
> |
> |
> |
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> |
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208
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