RE: [atlarge-discuss] Democracy and it's Borders

["Bruce Young" <bruce@barelyadequate.info>]

Richard Henderson wrote:

| Unfortunately when we tried to get the use of www.atlarge.org
| (which Marc
| Schneiders has kindly offered to us for our use) the panel
| voted 4 for, 4
| against, and 1 abstention - so the effort was stalled.

Indeed.  But I think those voting against it did so communicating "we don't
want to do this right now" as opposed to "we don't want to do this".

But I disagree with that assessment: I see subdomains on ATLARGE.ORG,
pointing to ICANNATLARGE.ORG, as being a valuable foundation on which to
build our outreach effort, and that foundation should be under construction
*right now,* so it's ready to build upon once the by-laws are in place.
Richard, I think we need to discuss this at length on WG-Outreach, work with
that list's members to build a more-structured proposal tied to our outreach
effort, so they see why it's important, and reintroduce it to the Panel.

To those who nay-say the regional organizing ideas Jefsey, Richard and
myself have been discussing, I suggest that there is no better, or more
ligitimate, way to build this organization's strength than by fostering and
encouraging local and regional affiliate groups under the At Large unbrella
organization, with each local group working on Internet issues nearest to
the hearts of their local members.  This multiplicity of member groups
working together in concert with the ICANNATLARGE.ORG parent will provide an
unparralleled legitimacy to this organization's voice.



Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!




| -----Original Message-----
| From: Richard Henderson [mailto:richardhenderson@ntlworld.com]
| Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 3:55 AM
| To: Jkhan; atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de
| Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Democracy and it's Borders
|
|
| I agree with this proposal, James, which can be powerfully
| developed through
| www.atlarge.org
|
| Unfortunately when we tried to get the use of www.atlarge.org
| (which Marc
| Schneiders has kindly offered to us for our use) the panel
| voted 4 for, 4
| against, and 1 abstention - so the effort was stalled.
|
| Unless and until we proceed with this democratic, open and
| powerful concept,
| I fear the At Large Nation (to use your terms) will remain splintered,
| scattered and easy to marginalise.
|
| We need a rallying point : an At Large space open and
| available to all. We
| must not block this. How we develop www.icannatlarge.org is
| OUR business and
| our responsibility. But Icannatlarge.org is only part of the "At Large
| Nation". We may do well. We may do badly.
|
| Yet, even at this moment, there is nothing to stop the
| initiation of an open
| At Large web space, which is not just defined by nations (as
| you propose)
| but is also Trans-Group (as Joop suggests).
|
| In my opinion, Joop and you are talking great sense, and I
| just hope that
| this can be furthered through IcannatLarge.org. It does not
| have to be. If
| IcannatLarge.org does not want to espouse this Greater At
| Large concept,
| then some of us can initiate it anyway - because although we
| are members of
| IcannatLarge.org, we are also members of the greater At Large
| community of
| ordinary users all over the world.
|
| We can initiate this at almost any time. We have the contacts. We have
| people keen to get to work on a nation by nation basis.
| Indeed, many members
| of IcannatLarge.org may also want to subscribe to the broader At Large
| construct and be part of a broader alliance AS WELL as
| IcannatLarge.org
|
| It is getting close to decision time on whether to do this through
| IcannatLarge.org or through a grouping of people who share the vision.
|
| The benefit of using subdomains of a single point of identity
| is that it
| allows diversity and freedom of expression, while building up
| the group
| identity of the At Large in a coalition which will publicly
| demonstrate the
| opposition to Icann and the shared vision of an Internet run
| by its users.
|
| This, in turn, has significant implications for the emergence of a new
| democratic frontier for the whole world.
|
| Richard H
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: Jkhan <Jkhan@MetroMgr.com>
| To: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
| Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:16 AM
| Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Democracy and it's Borders
|
|
| Jeff:
|
| Thanks Jeff, I appreciate your commentaries in small doses ;-]
|
| >  I am not sure what you mean by "Sub Domains"?
|
| In this case Sub-Domains are used as a unique identifier. For
| example the
| http://www.Navaho Nation.Arizona.Atlarge.com, here you have a group
| identified as the Navaho. in the state of Arizona. and member of the
| Atlarge.
|
| The variation is also true, http://Arizona.Navaho
| Nation.Atlarge.com here
| the Arizona. members the Navaho Nation. of the Atlarge. are
| identified.
|
| The right to left classifier can be confusing.
|
| Jeff, In my opinion (and I maybe wrong) the ccTDLs
| classification system is
| limiting. Consider this:
|
| There are 961 unique Languages (fyi: Microsoft publishes 57
| of these in MUIs
| / Multilingual User Interface pacs) , I had last counted (see:
| http://www.worldlanguage.com/Languages/  ) . There are also a
| great number
| of Nations, for example consider the Nations of the American Indians.
| People identify themselves by the language they speak and groups they
| identify with. 'They' choose to put "Construction" upon this.
|
| Countries are bound by their geographies, thus so are the ccTDLs.
|
| The possibilities are as Boundless; as one person / one
| voice. However our
| goal* is to be united in the 'Recognition' of this, the respectful
| opportunity of having recognition to the point of, one person
| one voice. [*
| Utopian]
|
| >Do you mean 3rd level Domain names for this structure for chapters by
| country or region?
|
| Yes & No, as I refer to my comments above, we must agree to
| find a level
| which supports a 'Manageable' system, that is inclusive by
| nature. I think
| 'Nation-States' are a good starting point.
|
| Addendum:  I would also like to point out that there is a
| danger of loosing
| many of our 'Linguistic species and Tribal Nations' if they are not
| included, and overlooked.
|
| James
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
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