Re: [atlarge-discuss] Starting a New Chapter

[Sotiris Sotiropoulos <sotiris@hermesnetwork.com>]

Abel Wisman wrote:

> As a member but non-panel member, I can, after reading the post below,
> react without any reservation.
>
> For one, laughter is out of place, as David said, he has a very strong
> case, certainly within the current ICANN/IPC structure and the fact that
> Joop was paid for setting-up/designing the site does not help Joop's
> actions, but that is just a legal standpoint, and without doubt it would
> be an interesting case.

It would be a joke.  I'd love to see them try it.  If anything it would work
in Joop's favour.  In fact, I do hope they try it now!  But, I'm willing to
bet that the ICANNians won't allow a stir over the matter (it might make the
press headlines).  What do you think?  ;-)

>
>
> However what you say after that is indeed a travesty.
> Not what is happening but the comments.

Most especially yours, I'm afraid... but go a little further down...

>

> Sotiris, I respect you, but the lack of respect you show here to people
> of good standing and moral, supported by being VOTED IN PLACE is out of
> line, the discussion can at most focus on the part of those who  have
> voted to whether they made mistakes when voting, but never on legitimacy
> of the panel, nor on their personallity.
> They were nominated, supported, and chosen.
> If you make a wrong choice, you wait for your next chance to vote and
> change it, bitching in the time between elections is useless and
> incorrect.

I have problems with the ID verification for this organization.  I believe
there are many phonies involved, especially when it comes to elections.  In
fact, I think the best thing this organization can do is hold a public
on-list plebiscite, cards on the table once and for all.  I'll bet you have
a problem with that though, right?

>
>
> If the WG-web does nothing, then far be it from Brett to do something,
> he is just a go-between for the panel and the wg-web, who hold the keys
> to the doors, no more. It is up to others to request those doors be
> opened, by becoming webmaster he was not all of a sudden obliged to
> update the site daily on his own account, that is what the wg is for.
>
> The background of the panel members was no secret when they were chosen
> and for most their personal ideas on things were pretty well known as
> well, no good hiding now behind this, we were all aware of that when we
> choose them.

WHO chose them?  Verified, bona fide people?  I don't think so.  When I
proposed an ID verification system based on Thawte Web of Trust in WG
Identity (remember that?), why did it not get discussed?  None of the
cronies would accept something like that though, because SHEER NUMBERS are
not really in their favour!  if the BEANS really do get VERIFIED and COUNTED
who do you think stands to gain?  And, I put nothing past the ICANNians...
nothing.  The last four years have been quite instructive in their tactics.

>
>
> And please, spare me the melodramatics about it, the "Ich habe es nicht
> gewusst" is still fresh in most European's memories.

Oh?  I wouldn't know about that.

>
>
> You choose, you deal with it, change it with the next election and in
> the meantime, start working on making things better, propose somethin
> positive, react to Jeffsey's proposals, DO, it is that easy, you
> offered, were called upon and silence set in, I would almost say you
> were a part of the panel :)

Excuse me?!  I have DONE often enough... I have submitted mission statements
(not one, but two), I created logos, mastheads and banners, I set up a
functioning PostNuke php based CMS web site for use by this org, I offered
to host and run the web site, I have done my part in keeping the members of
this discuss list informed of the ALOC/ALAC activities and
teleconference(s)...  Do I really need to continue?  What exactly have you
done to-date?  You're pretty cheeky though, aren't you...  Thanks a lot for
nothing but bluster pal!  Don't try the righteous indignant approach with
me, there are enough people here who have seen what I've done... what about
you???


Sotiris Sotiropoulos

>
>
> I support David's proposal for using the GA's (maillist) rules and hope
> someone will be able to do the same good job Thomas and Alexander did
> with it.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Abel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sotiris Sotiropoulos [mailto:sotiris@hermesnetwork.com]
> Sent: 29 November 2002 22:50
> To: NameCritic
> Cc: atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de; DPF
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Starting a New Chapter
>
> NameCritic wrote:
>
> > Ridiculous. Threats of legal action by a nonexistant organization,
> > expecially since he had the domain name first. Maybe you should
> > refrain from joining any wg's on domain disputes.
> >
> > You can ask joop to apologize as you said. You can ask joop not to do
> > that. But sue him? Good luck.
>
> Ahahahaha!  That's exacty what I thought.
>
> This has become a sad travesty to be sure.
>
> Please guys, spare us all the melodramatics.  Brett, you "don't care"
> about being Webmaster, but you're showing an awful lot of interest in
> over/undertones of legalistic activities...  Hmm, time for one but not
> for the other?  Is that it?
>
> Joop's best move would be to apologize.  I think everyone respects what
> he's done, but many do not approve of it.  I personally think it's about
> time we actually put our cards on the table.  I'd like to see how many
> people are actually paying attention to this mailing list.  We have a
> panel member, Satyajit Gupta, who has not been heard from in months, yet
> his VOTING place on the panel remains unoccupied for some inane and
> convoluted excuse, which has yet to be offered by any of them but will
> surely follow at some point...
>
> There are certain panel members (and others involved in key aspects of
> this organization), who have been part of the ICANN 'process' -or shall
> we say,
> Lifestyle- for some years now.  These individuals have consistently
> painted themselves as 'champions' for the cause of individual and
> non-commercial voices in Internet Governance, yet they have obviously
> not had much effect towards that end in the overall ICANN schema.  In
> fact, many of them have actively hindered its progression and
> development (the ALSC "study" is the classic case in point).  What makes
> any of us think these people will ever be able to deliver in its effect
> at all?  And, they all seem to be having a grand ole time at the
> International Public Meetings (the photos say it all!  I mean, have you
> people bothered to lookup the pics on these events...  Wow!  Looks to me
> like a good time's definitely had by all!  Let me tell you...)
>
> I'd like a public counting of heads through an individual sound off to
> verify memership interest in these matters, hopefully along with
> thoughts on how to proceed...
>
> In my opinion, the Panel needs to replaced by doers, not with more of
> "those who want to do no work, yet have a weakness for high living?"
> (XENOPHON, Memorabilia, II. i. 15 )
>
> Sotiris Sotiropoulos
>
> P.S.  I am still waiting to hear from Denise Michel on Public remote
> participation in the Amsterdam ICANN AtLarge meeting.  See
> http://www.worldatlarge.org/amsterdam1.html for any updates.
>
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