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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Some Simple Facts...




DPF wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Jan 2003 15:00:07 +0100, "J-F C. (Jefsey)  Morfin"
> <jefsey@club-internet.fr> wrote:
>
> >On 22:40 04/01/03, sotiris@hermesnetwork.com said:
> >> > On Sat, 4 Jan 2003 07:35:08 -0800, "Bruce Young"
> >> > <bruce@barelyadequate.info> wrote:
> >> >>I don't disagree with most of this.  However, the appropriate order is
> >> >>to create our organization first, then solicit funds.  Without a
> >> >>legally approved organization, in whatever venue we wish to have it
> >> >>approved, we can run into tax issues (at least in *this* country!).
> >> > True and it is unbelievable we have not yet had a vote on where to
> >> > incorporate and some draft bylaws, especially when there have bene
> >> > several options now for several months.
> >>Yes, this is quite unacceptable.  The current panel members have stymied
> >>this organization and deterred it from any progress whatsoever.  Perhaps
> >>its time for an election?
> >
> >Here we have an exchange between our three leaders in terms of action.
> >
> >- Bruce for USA
> >- DPF for NZ
> >- Sotiris for Canada
>
> I am not for NZ.  I wish people would stop trying to divide us at
> large up into nationalistic groups.  Bad enough ICANN is going to
> force us into regional groups.  The issues we deal with are global and
> for the most part our perspectives are global.  I don't think of
> Sotiris as Canadian, Thomas as German etc.  If anything I divide
> people up mentally into my own groups such as moderates, radicals etc.
>
> >And what do you globally? you say :"I have done some proposition,
> >others have done nothing while time flown".
>
> Everything I have proposed which now includes incorporation, bylaws
> and funding have been designed for the global icannatllarge.org group,
> not some nationalistic faction which you keep trying to set up.

I completely agree with David.  I'd like to think of my atlarge efforts to-date
as being on behalf of people just like me all over the world, and not simply
for the benefit of Canadians per se.

>
>
> >My question is simple:
> >
> >1. you have had all the necessary time, from IDNO and @large,
> >     to diagnose that the system you propose is slow to fly - I
> >     would even suggest that it cannot fly.
>
> What we need with all respect to the panel is leadership.  If one
> leads many of us will follow, even if we don't agree with 100% of what
> is done.  As I have said I don't care much where we incorporate - I
> just want it done.

Ditto for me.  However, considering the heetofore unparalleled generosity of
InternetNZ and the set of bylaws already submitted by David Farrar, I would be
in favour of NZ incorporation.  The time for lollygagging is long past, every
day that passes us in this current state is a lost opportunity vis a vis ICANN.

>
>
> >2. yet what contingency plan do you propose? The only suggestion
> >     by Sotiris is to repeat it ("new election"). Errare humanum est,
> >     perseverare diabolicum.
>
> What I would like before that step is for the panel to list what it
> believes it can achieve in its year in office and then specific time
> frames for each task.  So it might be :
>
> 31 Jan  Decision on Incorporation
> 28 Feb  Vote held on fundamental role and purpose
> 31 Mar  Bylaws adopted by members vote
> 31 May  Fund raising letters gone out to Registries, Registrars,
> Markle etc
> 30 April        Content Management System for website finalised
>
> This is not rocket science - this is normal good planning and
> organisation.

Thank you for the nice summation David.

>
>
> >Where are usa@large? nz@large? canada@large? Nowhere,
> >except that canada@large never took off and that nz@large is
> >faught by DPF. If you cannot even do something in your own
> >land, how do you want others believe you are serious about the
> >world?
>
> Jefsey - you are now being deliberately or amnesiacally dishonest.
> We have had this debate before and I have said many times in no
> uncertain terms that I do not seek nz@large.  In fact I specifically
> reject you entire personal plan of nationalistic enclaves.  In my
> opinion there is no need for a NZ section of icannatlarge.org.  I am
> not against others setting up voluntarily country groupings but stop
> trying to make them a compulsory pre-requisite and most of all stop
> suggesting I have failed to set one up when you know damn well I have
> no intention of doing so.
>
> >france@large and germany@large feel alone (france@large was
> >incorporated more than 2 years ago). I do not claim it is something
> >big (it is not as it is meant to benefit from other countries synergy)
> >but it is something. For the time being it is even the only thing in
> >the @large world which is more than 2 years old (with our Directors).
>
> That's very nice.  But to be blunt you are an elected panelist of
> icannatlarge.org.  I don't really care about what you did two years
> ago.  I don't even direct this at you personally as I appreciate you
> do at least contribute but the panel collectively since their election
> has failed in their leadership role.  I know it has been difficult
> with Victorio then Joanna and then Hans and now back to Vittoria but
> the time for excuses is fading.
>
> My challenge to the panel is to produce a work plan, and implement it,
> or as Sotiris says - step aside.

Hear! Hear!

Sincerely,

Sotiris Sotiropoulos


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