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Re: [atlarge-discuss] $1 verification.
Ron and all fellow members,
I also believe that James T., called me back after my first attempt
to call him on the phone. But your point as stated below is well
taken here Ron. None the less my phone # is a listed number
in my name.
Conversely, as PayPal has been under some considerable question
concerning fraud and misappropriation of funds, is it any more
a reliable source for validation or verification of identity, or even
less reliable? I along with a number of folks in the
legal community, state atty's generals offices in several states,
the FTC, PTO and the SEC, would say the latter.
Ron Sherwood wrote:
> Has everyone missed the most important issue that arises from this thread?
>
> Jeff Williams writes that he spoke with James Tyre at the telephone number
> on his sig file.
>
> James Tyre confirms that Jeff Williams spoke with him.
>
> Ergo: there is a James Tyre at that phone number and his identity is
> probably valid and could also be verified by others who know him.
>
> My point? How does James Tyre know that he spoke with Jeff Williams.
>
> James, may I ask if you called Jeff Williams, or did someone calling himself
> Jeff Williams call you? How can we verify Jeff Williams?
>
> I suspect that those among our membership who have met me at ICANN
> conferences and other places, could verify that I exist. I could do the same
> for them. This could be the basis of a "web of trust" within our own
> organization. But what if I were to create another persona with an email
> address, use that persona to post to this list, verify that persona by
> writing confirming on this list that I know her and met her at OII or other
> Internet related forum. What if I were to create a dozen such personae?
> What if I had them all claim to have spoken to each other on the phone?
> What if I suddenly had 13 votes to everyone else's single vote?
>
> Surely I am less likely to forge documents and pay the cost of opening a
> bank account in each of those names. Does this not make the Pay-Pal $1
> verification more relevant and more reliable than the phone call
> verification under discussion?
>
> Ron Sherwood
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James S. Tyre" <jstyre@jstyre.com>
> To: "Sotiris Sotiropoulos" <sotiris@hermesnetwork.com>
> Cc: "Jeff Williams" <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>; <micheal@beethoven.com>; "At
> Large Discuss" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 1:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] $1 verification.
>
> > Thanks for your response, Sotiris,
> >
> > One reason why I did not initially self-identify as Karl's lawyer is that
> I
> > realize that puts me in somewhat of a unique situation, as I assume most
> > everyone here would accept Karl's word that I am who I say I am, and my
> > point never was intended to be about me. Rather, it was the broader point
> > that if the analog option is available, why foreclose it?
> >
> > I may not always agree with you (as I said, I've not posted here in ages,
> > but I've never unsubscribed), but if you were to vouch that Alice is a
> real
> > person whom you know, I would accept your word, you've established your
> > bona fides well enough even though we don't know each other. Same for
> > Joop, for example, though certainly not for all who post here. There are
> > reasons why I will not use PayPal, and the cost and time of getting a
> > digital certificate seem unnecessary if there are other, perhaps even
> > better, means of establishing that a person is a real person - which is
> all
> > I'm talking about here, not whether that person is worthy of office.
> >
> > At 12:39 AM 5/25/2003 -0400, Sotiris Sotiropoulos wrote:
> >
> >
> > >James S. Tyre wrote:
> > >
> > >>Yes, indeed you were one of the folks from this list who spoke to me on
> > >>the telephone (not the only), and yes, indeed I was Karl's lawyer in his
> > >>rather successful lawsuit against ICANN. (I do not assume that most
> here
> > >>know that, and it wasn't especially relevant to my initial point anyway;
> > >>though it would be pretty funny if, for example, I asked Louis Touton to
> > >>verify my reality, he knows it all too well.)
> > >>
> > >>I did not mean to suggest that all forms of digital verification are
> > >>invalid, and at the same time, I fully recognize that not all here could
> > >>get someone such as Karl to vouch for their bona fides as a real
> > >>person. My purpose only was to express a concern over what I have been
> > >>reading about using digital to the exclusion of analog. I suggest only
> > >>that whatever is best in the particular circumstance should be allowed.
> > >
> > >
> > >James,
> > >
> > >In truth, your point would be a lot stronger if this organization were
> > >about anything BUT the Internet. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the
> > >'analog' model scales very well on the global Web. So, in order to make
> it
> > >an even playing field for all prospective members, it is a whole lot
> > >simpler to have a uniform verification process, whether that be Paypal
> > >transactions or digital certificates, take your pick.
> > >
> > >Be Well,
> > >
> > >--Sotiris Sotiropoulos
> > >
> > >--
> > >-----------
> > >
> > >"The science of jurisprudence regards the state and power as the
> > >ancients regarded fire- namely, as something existing absolutely.
> > >But for history, the state and power are merely phenomena, just as for
> > >modern physics fire is not an element but a phenomenon.
> > >
> > > From this fundamental difference between the view held by history
> > >and that held by jurisprudence, it follows that jurisprudence can tell
> > >minutely how in its opinion power should be constituted and what
> > >power- existing immutably outside time- is, but to history's questions
> > >about the meaning of the mutations of power in time it can answer
> > >nothing."
> > > --Leo Tolstoy, "War and Peace"
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > James S. Tyre mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com
> > Law Offices of James S. Tyre 310-839-4114/310-839-4602(fax)
> > 10736 Jefferson Blvd., #512 Culver City, CA 90230-4969
> > Co-founder, The Censorware Project http://censorware.net
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
> > For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de
> >
Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
Pierre Abelard
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
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