Re: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings

["MPoole" <urgen@charter.net>]

I acknowledge the out of orderness of my previous postings.  I will try
to do better.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Abel Wisman" <abel@able-towers.com>
To: "'Atlarge Discuss List'" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:25 AM
Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings


> Not only do you add ot the confusion and thus make the chance of this
> setup diminish, you are also somewhat out of order with your remarks
to
> me below.

As to whether a chance for setup will be allowed is part of the issue.
There is indeed a lot of confusion in the air.

> IF (a big if) panel meetings were to be held in the open on irc, (only
a
> big if because some panel members might not like the idea, or some
panel
> members may refuse it) it should be quite clear that like in any
meeting
> of "a" panel, minutes are kept and according to our nature "posted" on
> the site and maillist.

I am not worried about panel meetings on or not in IRC.  I feel the
panel has nearly zero significance to the Internet Community at Large
except for organizational assistance at this stage of the game.
Mandating formats for the venue of the panel should surely be left to
the panel and I am not trying to exert any pressure in that direction.

> I proposed to set up an ircd server dedicated to icannatlarge, under
the
> domain icannatlarge.org, thus continuing on the strategy to move
> everything under "our" domain. Since only a handfull people reacted
> positive until now, you did not react at all, I have this setup (which
> is ready and only needs started) ready and am merely waiting for the
> panel and members to confirm or object.

I'm reacting, I'm reacting.  Any silence previously was only me
attempting to get my bearings.  Isn't the domain name in dispute?  Who
is paying for the domain and bandwidth?  Isn't that voluntary?  I do
honor and recognize the control aspect of the question though.  Turn the
server on already.  We do not need consent other than actual proof by
participation.  This, too, is one of the issues in discussion.  The
definition of membership.  Currently the definition is try and you are
part of it.  There are some motions to refine that definition but there
are some other worries about taking clarity too far and cutting of the
life blood of the organization.

> Once setup (like with the maillist) I will hand over the the "ropes"
of
> the server to the panel, who can appoint whoever they want as admin
and
> irc-operators in order to facilitate this server.

This panel is starting to gain authority in directions it has not been
given.  But I acknowledge the point of order, again.

> That way we know nobody can play god in "his" channel for the atlarge
or
> "on "his server".

If it is not a totally open platform fragmentation (playing God) will
arise.  Learning to deal with a distributed participation grid will be
an exciting challenge.

> Setting up the complete server including services allows members to
> setup their own channels with topic related names so indeed people
from
> all over the world can paritcipate.

Now this is a lot closer to my interests and concerns and demonstrates
positive use of that environment.

> As so many other means of cummunication open to us, it is free to use
or
> refuse, but it should be under control of the membership i.e. the
panel
> only that way coninuity has some chance.

The panel is not the membership.

> Kind regards
>
> Abel

Thanks for all your efforts, I respect the amount of thought you have
put into this already,

MPoole
urgen

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MPoole [mailto:urgen@charter.net]
> > Sent: 03 June 2003 08:06
> > To: abel@able-towers.com; 'Atlarge Discuss List'
> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings
> >
> >
> > Oh boy, I'm dating myself here, by responding to email that
> > is beginning to collect dust.
> >
> > If there was someone that needed an SMTP interface to IRC we
> > would be more than happy to bend as far as possible to make
> > it work, right?  Isn't that the point?  Right tool for the
> > job.  If it doesn't exist, invent it.  This is the Internet after
all.
> >
> > I can understand a concern for doing business outside of
> > public venue but that only goes back to addressing the issue
> > that is resisting definition, i.e. membership.  Bootstrapping
> > requires a minimum set of components be in place at the time
> > of initialization.  We need some volunteers to help explore
> > that minimum set and I was just suggesting a free and easy
> > way to establish that definition of participation as "join
> > the channel and you are in."  If you still want to help but
> > can't arrive at that level of contribution or are just simply
> > restricted by time zone centric hurdles then we'll work around it.
> >
> > The digital divide will create the gap that stops the
> > vehicle, is it the gap or the vehicle that is the focus?  If
> > the vehicle can help close the gap then there isn't any
> > problem.  Email creates as many gaps as it closes just saying
> > that it is one of the most common methods of exchange to date
> > only describes the limits of the tools at hand not the
> > capacity of the exchange. IRC works great at 300 baud.
> >
> > MPoole
> > sorry for not signing my last post.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Abel Wisman" <abel@able-towers.com>
> > To: "'Atlarge Discuss List'" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:01 AM
> > Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings
> >
> >
> > > I agree with these limitations immediately, it should not
> > be seen as
> > > the end all solution, just an add-on and a tool that might
> > ease panel
> > > members talking in real time. If such a meeting would every be
> > > official I am sure official minutes would be posted to the
website.
> > >
> > > Abel
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ron Sherwood [mailto:sherwood@islands.vi]
> > > > Sent: 01 June 2003 18:47
> > > > To: Hugh Blair; 'Atlarge Discuss List'
> > > > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All Panel members and contributors:
> > > >
> > > > Please, please recognize that we aspire to include and
> > represent a
> > > > global membership.  Please, therefore, also recognize
> > that bandwidth
> > > > and online time are not universally available or universally
> > > > affordable.  This discuss list, and/or other access to
> > text archives
> > > > must be available to those who cannot readily use web
> > based fora.
> > > > Email is universal and must remain the primary communication
tool
> > > > for this organization.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, Ron Sherwood
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Hugh Blair" <hblair@hotfootmail.com>
> > > > To: "'Atlarge Discuss List'" <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 11:09 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Open real-time panel meetings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Abel Wisman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In order to facilitate the topic of this mail, I suggest
> > > > I set up a
> > > > > > dedicated ircd server for the icannatlarge.org under
> > > > > > irc.icannatlarge.org.
> > > > >
> > > > > IRC is not as accessable as a mail list. At least not for me.
I
> > > > > can receive email, redirect email anywhere needed, but actual
> > > > web access
> > > > > is not always available. If you set up an IRC channel,
> > > > unfortunately I
> > > > > won't be attending.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hugh
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
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