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Re: [atlarge-discuss] [Fwd: Re: [Panel] RE: [Panel] MOTION #2003-0- Chair Rotation and Responsibilities]
You have not re-butted any of my points... probably because you cannot.
Quit trying to shift the focus, it's not working. Your control over
this mailing list and your desired control over the web site hosting
(and you current practical control over its dns) puts you in an
unrivalled position vis a vis the rest of the panel. This is an
unacceptable imbalance. Don't try to squirm away from this fundamental
issue. james Love and hans Klein have 'disappeared' to all intents and
purposes, leaving the dns pointing in your hands. If that is not the
case, then I'd like to hear it from the two of them, and not you.
--Sotiris Sotiropoulos
Abel Wisman wrote:
Your selective posting of panel posts to the general list already shows
a patern :)
But I will gladly answer this below:
-----Original Message-----
From: Sotiris Sotiropoulos [mailto:sotiris@hermesnetwork.com]
Sent: 09 June 2003 03:39
To: At Large Discuss
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] [Fwd: Re: [Panel] RE: [Panel]
MOTION #2003-0 - Chair Rotation and Responsibilities]
Abel Wisman wrote:
And again, no answer, no facts, nothing.
Please state facts to backup your concern and please do not compare
pears and apples.
Where is the conflict of interest? Abel Wisman asks.
First off, Abel, let me point out the plain *fact* that at
this point
you hold more control over this organization than any other member.
Wrong, read on where you fail in your aspirations.
If the official website as you and yours allege is icannatlarge.org,
then we cannot overlook the *fact* that you have ultimate (albeit
indirect), definite, and sole proxy power over icannatlarge.org's dns
hosting which means we are effectively at your mercy as to where the
site can be hosted at this time. This, due to an as yet unexplained
arrangement, and a totally unnecessary and circuitos, nay mysterious,
server farm setup.
First of all is your reasoning wrong, based on assumptions without any
foundation and have all the signs of trying to strike fear with all
those that do not hold the knowledge to see where you go wrong.
I have no power whatsoever over the DNS just by hosting that DNS. The
sole power lies by 2 people, Hans Klein and Jamie Love who can alter the
appointed nameservers on the domain. I can not as the whois output I
posted earlier to the panellist shows clearly and as you as frequent
dealer in domains KNOW.
The so called unexplained arrangement was made by the former panel when
they were "pushed" out of the domain and the site i.e. the forums were
hacked. Hans Klein, or Jamie Love pointed the nameservers to my
server(s) and I pointed the domain to its current host. I have no access
to that host. I have not changed that pointing in the DNS files.
What mysterious server farm you conjer up here I have no idea of, but a
server farm is a defined term I suggest you look up before you use it.
Furthermore, there is the *fact* that you are a panelist of this
organization. I do not think it is appropriate for an
executive member
of this organization to conveniently find him/herself in such
a singular
position of unrivalled control over key elements of this
organization,
as control over the hosting (whether that be dns, mail, dbase, ftp,
whatever...) would ultimately entail. [In other words, the same
argument(s) that you use against Joop apply just as much to
you.] This
is not personal, I am just being pragmatic in the interest of
the whole
organization and its possible future.
Your "pragmatism" know its selectiveness, as you support a move to the
icannatlarge.com domain and this whilst knowing that Joop has already
answered a question from Daniel Chirita for access to that site with a
NO.
You forget to consider that I only offer the server, including root
acces to those who have sufficient knowledge to administer such a system
and dedicated ftp access in different levels to all those that need such
access, as well as shell acess for those that require it.
I fail to see where I would have key element under my control,
especially as I also proposed the idea of mirror-sites so that we would
not be dependant on one server. Your selective pragmatism is not in the
best interest of this organization despite your statement.
Not to mention that I certainly do not think it is
appropriate that you
should be the one to request/offer it... No offense, but it sounds
somewhat Pisistratean to me. I think it's certainly a generous offer
you make, but I think it is better for this organization to
stay free of
such obligations. thank you nonetheless.
Whilst showing that you know Herodotus' account you forget the total
story, I suggest you read it again and compare it to your own sitution
and see what number your currenty try to gain dictatorship is.
I do wonder why I would not be appropriate to offer the service, seeing
as I host server for a living and am thus in the circumstances to do so,
without occuring out of pocket expenses. Unlike hosting by a 2d party
against payment from one person and with only singular non root access.
I have not asked for any reimbursement, have not made any conditions so
I also fail to see the obligations the organization should be under.
Whatever setup Vittorio was responsible for is not
transferrable. The
membership desired change, NOT a continuance of the same state of
affairs. You have altogether too much undelegated control over this
organization. In this panel, we are unequal as to our abilities to
affect the organization's potential future due to your
incommensurately
large portion of influence over its "assets", if you like. In old
Athens, someone like you would have been ostracize at this point.
Which is of course exactly what you would like to do to all that oppose
you, such has been already been noted.
If we are unequal in our abilities to affect the organization's
potential then such lies not within my alleged potential or direct
influence over its assets, but in the way we approach things,
destructiveness never accomplished anything.
Abel
P.S. As for "keen" interest, I made an offer, no "keen" interest, if
you want to make the same offer, with the same accessibility I will
support that. "in it" for me is the loss of a server I can
rent out for
£ 100 a month and the bandwidth, I do not even ask for a sponsor
mentioning.
Nobody does something for nothing. It doesn't have to be money... it
could be anything. Thanks again for your generosity, but
it's best that
this organization is not beholden to you, Abel Wisman, or any
ONE else.
Which shows exactly what your think-pattern is. As they say in the
Netherlands; you trust the people as you trust yourself. Your world is
not a nice place, mine is/
Regards
Abel
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--
-----------
"The science of jurisprudence regards the state and power as the
ancients regarded fire- namely, as something existing absolutely.
But for history, the state and power are merely phenomena, just as for
modern physics fire is not an element but a phenomenon.
From this fundamental difference between the view held by history
and that held by jurisprudence, it follows that jurisprudence can tell
minutely how in its opinion power should be constituted and what
power- existing immutably outside time- is, but to history's questions
about the meaning of the mutations of power in time it can answer
nothing."
--Leo Tolstoy, "War and Peace"
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