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RE: [atlarge-discuss] [Fwd: Re: [Panel] RE: [Panel] MOTION #2003-0 - Chair Rotation and Responsibilities]
Abel is correct here, both historically and technically (to the extent I
understand it!). I'd be more concerned (and very little at that!) about two
former Panel members (Hans Klein and Jamie Love) being assigned to the
domain.
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
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| -----Original Message-----
| From: Abel Wisman [mailto:abel@able-towers.com]
| Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:20 PM
| To: panel@mailman.icannatlarge.org
| Cc: 'Atlarge Discuss List'
| Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] [Fwd: Re: [Panel] RE: [Panel] MOTION
| #2003-0 - Chair Rotation and Responsibilities]
|
|
| Your selective posting of panel posts to the general list already shows
| a patern :)
|
| But I will gladly answer this below:
|
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: Sotiris Sotiropoulos [mailto:sotiris@hermesnetwork.com]
| > Sent: 09 June 2003 03:39
| > To: At Large Discuss
| > Subject: [atlarge-discuss] [Fwd: Re: [Panel] RE: [Panel]
| > MOTION #2003-0 - Chair Rotation and Responsibilities]
| >
| > Abel Wisman wrote:
| >
| > >And again, no answer, no facts, nothing.
| > >
| > >Please state facts to backup your concern and please do not compare
| > >pears and apples.
| > >
| >
| > Where is the conflict of interest? Abel Wisman asks.
| >
| > First off, Abel, let me point out the plain *fact* that at
| > this point
| > you hold more control over this organization than any other member.
|
| Wrong, read on where you fail in your aspirations.
|
| > If the official website as you and yours allege is icannatlarge.org,
| > then we cannot overlook the *fact* that you have ultimate (albeit
| > indirect), definite, and sole proxy power over icannatlarge.org's dns
| > hosting which means we are effectively at your mercy as to where the
| > site can be hosted at this time. This, due to an as yet unexplained
| > arrangement, and a totally unnecessary and circuitos, nay mysterious,
| > server farm setup.
|
| First of all is your reasoning wrong, based on assumptions without any
| foundation and have all the signs of trying to strike fear with all
| those that do not hold the knowledge to see where you go wrong.
|
| I have no power whatsoever over the DNS just by hosting that DNS. The
| sole power lies by 2 people, Hans Klein and Jamie Love who can alter the
| appointed nameservers on the domain. I can not as the whois output I
| posted earlier to the panellist shows clearly and as you as frequent
| dealer in domains KNOW.
| The so called unexplained arrangement was made by the former panel when
| they were "pushed" out of the domain and the site i.e. the forums were
| hacked. Hans Klein, or Jamie Love pointed the nameservers to my
| server(s) and I pointed the domain to its current host. I have no access
| to that host. I have not changed that pointing in the DNS files.
|
| What mysterious server farm you conjer up here I have no idea of, but a
| server farm is a defined term I suggest you look up before you use it.
|
|
| > Furthermore, there is the *fact* that you are a panelist of this
| > organization. I do not think it is appropriate for an
| > executive member
| > of this organization to conveniently find him/herself in such
| > a singular
| > position of unrivalled control over key elements of this
| > organization,
| > as control over the hosting (whether that be dns, mail, dbase, ftp,
| > whatever...) would ultimately entail. [In other words, the same
| > argument(s) that you use against Joop apply just as much to
| > you.] This
| > is not personal, I am just being pragmatic in the interest of
| > the whole
| > organization and its possible future.
|
|
| Your "pragmatism" know its selectiveness, as you support a move to the
| icannatlarge.com domain and this whilst knowing that Joop has already
| answered a question from Daniel Chirita for access to that site with a
| NO.
|
| You forget to consider that I only offer the server, including root
| acces to those who have sufficient knowledge to administer such a system
| and dedicated ftp access in different levels to all those that need such
| access, as well as shell acess for those that require it.
|
| I fail to see where I would have key element under my control,
| especially as I also proposed the idea of mirror-sites so that we would
| not be dependant on one server. Your selective pragmatism is not in the
| best interest of this organization despite your statement.
|
|
| > Not to mention that I certainly do not think it is
| > appropriate that you
| > should be the one to request/offer it... No offense, but it sounds
| > somewhat Pisistratean to me. I think it's certainly a generous offer
| > you make, but I think it is better for this organization to
| > stay free of
| > such obligations. thank you nonetheless.
|
| Whilst showing that you know Herodotus' account you forget the total
| story, I suggest you read it again and compare it to your own sitution
| and see what number your currenty try to gain dictatorship is.
|
| I do wonder why I would not be appropriate to offer the service, seeing
| as I host server for a living and am thus in the circumstances to do so,
| without occuring out of pocket expenses. Unlike hosting by a 2d party
| against payment from one person and with only singular non root access.
| I have not asked for any reimbursement, have not made any conditions so
| I also fail to see the obligations the organization should be under.
|
| > Whatever setup Vittorio was responsible for is not
| > transferrable. The
| > membership desired change, NOT a continuance of the same state of
| > affairs. You have altogether too much undelegated control over this
| > organization. In this panel, we are unequal as to our abilities to
| > affect the organization's potential future due to your
| > incommensurately
| > large portion of influence over its "assets", if you like. In old
| > Athens, someone like you would have been ostracize at this point.
|
| Which is of course exactly what you would like to do to all that oppose
| you, such has been already been noted.
| If we are unequal in our abilities to affect the organization's
| potential then such lies not within my alleged potential or direct
| influence over its assets, but in the way we approach things,
| destructiveness never accomplished anything.
|
|
| > >
| > >Abel
| > >
| > >P.S. As for "keen" interest, I made an offer, no "keen" interest, if
| > >you want to make the same offer, with the same accessibility I will
| > >support that. "in it" for me is the loss of a server I can
| > rent out for
| > >£ 100 a month and the bandwidth, I do not even ask for a sponsor
| > >mentioning.
| > >
| >
| >
| > Nobody does something for nothing. It doesn't have to be money... it
| > could be anything. Thanks again for your generosity, but
| > it's best that
| > this organization is not beholden to you, Abel Wisman, or any
| > ONE else.
|
|
| Which shows exactly what your think-pattern is. As they say in the
| Netherlands; you trust the people as you trust yourself. Your world is
| not a nice place, mine is/
|
|
| Regards
|
| Abel
|
|
|
|
|
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