[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: [atlarge-discuss] Move to suspend Jeff Williams membership
Dear @All,
...on the other hand...
As me and many other members have been saying and giving evidences to the
Panel in private mails, there are antecedents of JW from 1996 in Internet.
It is a ghost, it has participated of almost all the organizations linked
ICANN, ISOC and other, when I say it participated I refer to the cartoon,
difficultly we can say that he is a person o several.
In all the cases it has left clean, it has mounted and orchestrated big
movements of disorder or discussions, coarse simply to look for their name
in Internet. Their strategy is almost always the same one, to generate
discussions, to cause, to incite, to destabilize and he never responds
concretely, it doesn't face the problems and we won't achieve that he
responds in a direct way the accusations, has made this way always it.
Following the game of JW you doesn't arrive to any place, the organization
enters in the dark and then everything is made it costs up. It is a ghost
like the Director "Mr. Smetee" in the cheap movies.
Complementarily to their strategy, I invite to read in Internet on the
matter, he causes and he threatens, he threatens trials, he threatens
letters and notifications, finally never concrete anything, doesn't look for
to sum up anything, it is simply a game of institutional unstabilization.
Their behavior is the same one almost in all the lists where I have read its
notes, it deviates the attention, if it attacks it to him the deaf one it is
made and he writes on another thing, he answers ambiguously, it disappears
some days and it reappears with a text that anything has to do with the
problem, a strategy that uses and it is almost its presentation signature it
is that when it is penned it sends to the list a URL of a news, a press
article or similar, in general it presents that article or URL saying that
he has to do with the organization or with the problem, in fact when we read
it we realize that it is not this way that that article has very little that
to see, but he already achieved its objective...to disperse the discussion.
Theories are many envelope who is this extracted personality of an urban
legend. I in the personal thing have my favorite ones, but be which is the
theory that is written on JW, the only thing certain it is their tablet you
to be a non stability factor in any organization where he interferes.
I invite the members to look for the name of JW in Internet and to read the
discussions in other lists and other organizations. The discussions that we
are carrying out here, are identical to those that other unaware ones have
had with him in other lists.
If after what I have said here and of the whole material that me and others
have contributed in private, they want to continue keeping in mind to JW
inside @Large, lament to tell them that we will regret to waste the time in
him.
If they don't want to veto it, simply ignore it, it will be healthier for
all.
Please read, is only example:
http://fcn.net/robin/mr99jeff.html (very good)
http://listserver.isocnz.org.nz/pipermail/idno-discuss/2001-August/000017.ht
ml
http://archive.nznog.org/2002-01/msg00324.html
http://www.ietf.cnri.reston.va.us/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg03029.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0306/msg01161.html
http://www.fichtner.net/outlook/1999-01.html (in german)
But how member of @Large, I will accompany the majority, if decides to
confront this ghost, I will support the decision.
We all have fallen at some time in the temptation of discussing with him.
What @Large cannot allow, is that he dirties the activities of the
organization for that many members don't know it and they don't know its
history or antecedents, it is important that the Panel is attentive to
clarify any distortion of a topic or an intervention of JW to clarify the
point to the unaware members.
......................................................
[ES] ...Por otro lado....
Como yo y muchos otros miembros hemos estado diciendo y dando pruebas al
Panel en mails privados, hay antecedentes de JW desde 1996 en Internet. Es
un fantasma, ha participado de casi todas las organizaciones vinculadas a
ICANN, ISOC y otras, cuando digo participó me refiero a la caricatura,
dificilmente podamos decir que es una persona o varias.
En todos los casos ha salido limpio, ha montado y orquestado grandes
movimientos de desorden o discusiones, basta simplemente buscar su nombre en
Internet. Su estrategia es casi siempre la misma, generar discusiones,
provocar, incitar, desestabilizar y jamás responde concretamente, no
enfrenta los problemas y no vamos a lograr que responda de manera directa
las acusaciones, así lo ha hecho siempre. Siguiendo el juego de JW no se
llega a ningún lado, la organización entra en el oscurantismo y luego se
hace todo cuesta arriba. Es un fantasma como el Director "Smetee" en el cine
barato.
Complementariamente a su estrategia, invito a leer en Internet sobre el
asunto, él provoca y él amenaza, amenaza con juicios, amenaza con cartas y
notificaciones, finalmente nunca concreta nada, no busca concretar nada, es
simplemente un juego de desestabilización institucional.
Su comportamiento es el mismo casi en todas las listas dónde he leído sus
notas, desvía la atención, si se lo ataca se hace el sordo y escribe sobre
otra cosa, contesta ambiguamente, desaparece unos días y reaparece con un
texto que nada tiene que ver con el problema, una estrategia que usa y es
casi su firma de presentación es que cuando se ve acorralado manda a la
lista una URL de una noticia, una artículo de prensa o similar, por lo
general presenta ese artículo o URL diciendo que tiene que ver con la
organización o con el problema, en realidad cuando lo leemos nos damos
cuenta que no es así, que ese artículo tiene muy poco que ver, pero él ya
logró su objetivo...dispersar la discusión.
Teorias hay muchas sobre quien es esta personalidad extraída de una leyenda
urbana. Yo en lo personal tengo mis preferidas, pero sea cual sea la teoría
que se escriba sobre JW, lo único cierto es su lápida se ser una factor de
desestabilización en cualquier organización donde se entromete.
Invito a los miembros a buscar el nombre de JW en Internet y leer las
discusiones en otras listas y otras organizaciones. Las discusiones que
estamos realizando aquí, son idénticas a las que otros desprevenidos han
tenido con él en otras listas.
Si después de lo que he dicho aquí y de todo el material que yo y otros
hemos aportado en privado, quieren seguir teniendo en cuenta a JW dentro de
@Large, lamento decirles que nos vamos a arrepentir de desperdiciar el
tiempo en él.
Si no lo quieren vetar, simplemente ignórenlo, va a ser más sano para todos.
Por favor leer, son solo ejemplos:
http://fcn.net/robin/mr99jeff.html (very good)
http://listserver.isocnz.org.nz/pipermail/idno-discuss/2001-August/000017.ht
ml
http://archive.nznog.org/2002-01/msg00324.html
http://www.ietf.cnri.reston.va.us/mail-archive/ietf/Current/msg03029.html
http://www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/0306/msg01161.html
http://www.fichtner.net/outlook/1999-01.html (en alemán)
Pero cómo miembro de @Large, voy a acompañar la mayoría, si se decide
confrontar a este fantasma, apoyaré la decisión
Todos hemos caído alguna vez en la tentación de discutir con él.
Lo que @Large no puede permitir, es que él ensucie las actividades de la
organización, por que muchos miembros no lo conocen y no conocen su historia
o antecedentes, es importante que el Panel esté atento para aclarar
cualquier distorsión de un tema o una intervención de JW para aclarar el
punto a los miembros desprevenidos.
greetings,
Mauro.-
----- Mensaje original -----
De: Albert Brickel
Para: At Large Discuss
Enviado: Miércoles, 16 de Julio de 2003 11:55 p.m.
Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Fw: Athentication
Nope you didn't explain. You posted a denial by Bill Burr that he doesn't
know you and that he never wrote you that memo.
Bill Burr wrote: "but I am Bill Burr, the manager of the NIST security
Technology Group and I did not write this, it makes no sense to me, it's not
my style at all, and I simply do not close anything with "Kindly".
Kinda plain and simple ain't it. Your'e a liar and got caught.
Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Richard and all fellow members,
I just again posted twice that he did. I explained compleately.
Richard Henderson wrote:
> Bill Burr says that he did not send the message to Jeff Williams, which
Jeff
> posted a copy of to us on our list.
>
> Jeff, either he did or he did not.
>
> I'm sorry but I really want cast iron assurances that the mail you
published
> was truthfully an e-mail sent to you in that form from Bill Burr.
>
> If it was not, I can't accept that. I'm not even willing to continue
> involvement with this mailing list if my time is going to be wasted with
> people using up my time and my private life with made-up falsehoods.
>
> This list has been overwhelmed by all kinds of aimless squabbles about
Jeff
> and his identity and his org and his posts - as far as I'm concerned, this
> issue of the Bill Burr e-mail is a test case. If Jeff can confirm that he
> received this specific e-mail, and simply passed it on, then that would be
> helpful. If Jeff cannot confirm that, then what's going on, and what is
the
> panel going to do about it? Because I'm out of here if you're just going
to
> preside over fabrication and make-believe...
>
> I just want us to be able to get on with substantive matters, without crap
> and nonsense. Life is too short. I've three kids to bring up. I want
serious
> correspondence, and most of all I don't want mindless deception. If I
commit
> a lie or deceive my employers at work, I expect to be fired. Similar
> standards should apply to an organisation like ours if we seek
credibility.
>
> Jeff: this matter is a test of your integrity, and of your right to remain
a
> member of this organisation, so please can you assure us:
>
> Was the mail which you published, on our list, truthfully an e-mail sent
to
> you *in that form* from Bill Burr?
>
> yrs sincerely,
>
> Richard Henderson
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Sherwood
> To: IAL
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:18 PM
> Subject: Fw: [atlarge-discuss] Fw: Athentication
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Burr"
> > To: "Jeff Williams"
> > Cc: ; "Albert Brickel"
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Fw: Athentication
> >
> >
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > I'm sorry I really don't understand what is going on here and don't
know
> > > what "I've forgotten in my busy schedule." I am on the ISC list but
> > > frankly filter those messages and look at them once in a blue moon, of
> it
> > > something specific comes up.
> > >
> > > What I'm saying is that I don't believe that I ever wrote or sent you
or
> > > anyone else the following text:
> > >
> > > |> Jeff,
> > > |>
> > > |> Thank you and your members of your organization for aiding in the
> > > |> development and furtherance of the developing standard required by
> > > |> the presidents directive of September 2000 for Authentication and
> > > |> Verification standards. You may also wish to, and it would be
> > > |> advised for you to forward the most important element along to the
> > > |> At-large organization you are involved with and attempting to
> > > |> shepherd.
> > > |>
> > > |> Kindly,
> > > |> B. Burr NIST
> > > |> Manager, Security Technology Group
> > >
> > > I don't think I have a dog in this fight, whatever it is, but I am
Bill
> > > Burr, the manager of the NIST security Technology Group and I did not
> > write
> > > this, it makes no sense to me, it's not my style at all, and I simply
> do
> > > not close anything with "Kindly".
> > >
> > > I can confirm that did send the July 11 message Subject:
> E-Authentication
> > > Policy Guidance, which you reference to my pki-twg group.
> > >
> > > Bill Burr
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
> For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
Pierre Abelard
===============================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de