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RE: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
Mauro D. Ríos wrote:
| I would thank you a lot if you enumerate me your arguments to disqualify
| this organization, the elections and all the members that have
| voted trying to give beginning to a constructive road.
Mauro, only a few voice here are questioning the election results. Some
have questioned our (my, Jefsey and Eric's) authority to conduct the
election, and I can live with that: we did what needed doing. But I think
the results we have seen, with positiove things finally happening for once,
is more than justification for going through the grief we did!
Please don't let a few strident voices deter you from what you see needs
doing!
Bruce Young
Portland, Oregon USA
bruce@barelyadequate.info
http://www.barelyadequate.info
--------------------------------------------
Support democratic control of the Internet!
Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
| -----Original Message-----
| From: A/S Mauro D. Ríos [mailto:mdrios@adinet.com.uy]
| Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:21 AM
| To: Jeff Williams
| Cc: Atlarge Discuss List
| Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
|
|
| Jeff,
|
| One cannot speak of the broken bridge without showing the hole.
|
| I would thank you a lot if you enumerate me your arguments to disqualify
| this organization, the elections and all the members that have
| voted trying
| to give beginning to a constructive road.
|
| I know that you have contributed a lot of ink to the list on
| this topic, but
| I find that much of that ink has finished with other colors and
| diversifying
| the points of view to lands that anything or little has to do
| with @Large or
| anything or little affects @Large.
|
| The verbosity is not good friend to defend a point of view.
|
| Would also be appreciated you comment these arguments concretely, I don't
| want to read to philosophize of @Large and thousand and a thematic
| derivations as I have seen in the list of those who are placing stones in
| the road.
|
| With pleasure we can exchange e-mails privately. Really desire
| to understand
| your point of view for that I don't share it at all. All know me and they
| know that I respect the opinion of all, for that reason I want
| to understand
| your position. Mainly for that I am convinced that opponent's position is
| easy, but when somebody is opposed something it should be for that has an
| alternative.
|
| The organizations improve from inside, not to the margin. The
| institutions
| are built from inside not from the sidewalk in front.
|
| I promise you to respond minutely each one of your arguments
| against @Large,
| let us maybe coincide in some, but I believe that we won't
| coincide in none.
|
| greetings,
| Mauro. -
|
| ............................
| [ES] No se puede hablar del puente roto sin mostrar el agujero.
|
| Yo te agradecería mucho si me enumeras tus argumentos para descalificar a
| esta organización, las elecciones y todos los miembros que han votado
| intentando dar comienzo a un camino constructivo.
|
| Se que has aportado mucha tinta a la lista sobre este tema, pero
| me parece
| que mucha de esa tinta ha terminado con otros colores y
| diversificando los
| puntos de vista a terrenos que nada o poco tienen que ver con
| @Large o nada
| o poco afectan a @Large.
|
| La verborragia no es buena amiga para defender un punto de vista.
|
| También te agradecería me comentes concretamente estos argumentos, no
| quiciera leer filosofar sobre @Large y mil y una derivaciones
| temáticas como
| he visto en la lista de quienes están colocando piedras en el camino.
|
| Con gusto podemos intercambiar e-mails privadamente. Realmente deseo
| entender tu punto de vista por que no lo comparto en absoluto. Todos me
| conocen y saben que respeto la opinión de todos, por eso quiero
| entender tu
| posición. Sobre todo por que estoy convencido que la posición de
| opositor es
| fácil, pero cuando alguien se opone a algo debe ser por que tiene una
| alternativa.
|
| Las organizaciones se mejoran desde adentro, no al margen. Las
| instituciones
| se construyen desde adentro no desde la vereda de enfrente.
|
| Te prometo responder minuciosamente cada uno de tus argumentos
| en contra de
| @Large, quizá coincidamos en alguno, pero creo que no coincidiremos en
| ninguno.
|
| saludos,
| Mauro.-
|
|
|
|
|
| -----Mensaje original-----
| De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
| Enviado el: Miércoles, 09 de Julio de 2003 12:02 a.m.
| Para: Atlarge Discuss List
| Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
|
|
| Mauro and all fellow members,
|
| I am truly sorry that you or any member is stressed by the
| truth. But sometimes the truth is stressful and must also sometimes
| be repeated in order for those that refuse to accept it to take
| honest head to it.
|
| The truth is also becoming more well known amongst
| other organizations, governments, and law enforcement
| agencies around the globe, regarding this fledgling
| organization as has been pointed out from time to time
| on this forum.
|
| You are right Mauro that either we start anew, or possibly we
| may need to clean up the mess that Jefsey, Eric, and Bruce
| yet again have created unnecessarily for the members of this
| fledgling organization.
|
| A/S Mauro D. Ríos wrote:
|
| > Dear All,
| >
| > I have listened this too many times: "the panel is not legitimate."
| > If it is this way and if this that we denominate Panel is only
| a "group of
| > members managing the organization", what does it impede to other 100 or
| 1000
| > members to be added to this group of people to contribute and to manage
| the
| > organization?. How they say here, there would be more caciques than
| Indians.
| >
| > I believe that everything has a beginning point, in the case
| of @Large has
| > already attempted it other times and it always finishes on the
| dot zero,
| > reason why this it is a new beginning point and we should
| assume this way
| > it. The first election in the French Republic was not perfect, the
| democracy
| > of the Greeks was but restricted that a police sation, the Swiss
| > organization of its so particular democracy was rejected in
| the beginning.
| >
| > Gentlemen, if we continue saying that this panel is
| illegitimate, please,
| > let us make silence, let us suspend the whole activity and let
| us begin to
| > work to organize a new "legitimate" election, but to continue in these
| gray
| > areas only harms to @Large, internally and toward out since
| are in front
| of
| > the eyes of many external people and many other organizations.
| >
| > greetings,
| > Mauro. -
| >
| > .............................
| > [ES] He escuchado esto demasiadas veces: "el panel no es legítimo".
| > Si es así y si esto que denominamos Panel es sólo un "grupo de miembros
| > manejando la organización", ¿qué impide a otros 100 o 1000 miembros
| sumarse
| > a este grupo de personas a contribuir y manejar la organización?. Cómo
| dicen
| > aquí, habría más caciques que indios.
| >
| > Creo que todo tiene un punto de inicio, en el caso de @Large ya lo ha
| > intentado otras veces y termina siempre en punto cero, por lo
| cual este es
| > un nuevo punto de inicio y debemos asumirlo así. La primera
| elección en la
| > República Francesa no fue perfecta, la democracia de los
| Griegos era mas
| > restringida que una comisaría, la organización suiza de su tan
| particular
| > democracia fue rechazada en el inicio.
| >
| > Caballeros, si continuamos diciendo que este panel es ilegítimo, por
| favor,
| > hagamos silencio, suspendamos toda la actividad y comencemos a trabajar
| para
| > organizar una nueva elección "legítima", pero continuar en estas zonas
| > grises sólo hace daño a @Large, internamente y hacia afuera ya
| que estamos
| > frente a los ojos de muchas personas externas y muchas otras
| organizaciones.
| >
| > saludos,
| > Mauro.-
| >
| > -----Mensaje original-----
| > De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
| > Enviado el: Martes, 08 de Julio de 2003 06:09 a.m.
| > Para: Walter Schmidt
| > CC: Atlarge Discuss List
| > Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
| >
| > Walter and all fellow members,
| >
| > There are no legitimate Panel members. We are seeing a repeat
| > of the previous panel nonsense.
| >
| > This is a membership driven organization. Hence
| > any policy must be approved by the members vote.
| >
| > There is not now, nor has there ever been a need for
| > any member here to "Volunteer" as "Unpaid" for
| > any actual "Work" of this fledgling organization.
| > So complaining in defense of any member here
| > of not being paid is a ruse and should be treated
| > as such.
| >
| > Walter Schmidt wrote:
| >
| > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, it was written:
| > >
| > > > We deserve and need a fully active panel representing our group.
| > >
| > > ...and that's what we have - especially when we remember
| they are all
| > > unpaid volunteers!
| > >
| > > --
| > >
| > > --- REgards, walts@dorsai.org Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA
| Blue(^) ---
| > > - - Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition -
| HPMC 873n ---
| > > - - Associate Expert - Expert Zone
| - -
| > > --- http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
| ---
| > > - -
| http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/columns/schmidt/ ---
| > > - - 52 Ken http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/
| Sun 57 - -
| > >
| > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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| >
| > Regards,
| >
| > --
| > Jeffrey A. Williams
| > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
| > "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
| > Pierre Abelard
| > ===============================================================
| > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
| > Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
| > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
| > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
| >
| > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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| >
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| Regards,
|
| --
| Jeffrey A. Williams
| Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
| "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
| Pierre Abelard
| ===============================================================
| CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
| Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
| E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
| Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
|
|
|
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