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RE: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
I only see one funny voice objecting to the election.
I do not think we were perfect (no one elected me king ;-) )
However we move forward and that is very good.
Antagonists and critical folks are best to have around but only for
strategic analisys of the course and never to derail.
Eric
> Mauro D. Ríos wrote:
>
> | I would thank you a lot if you enumerate me your arguments to
> disqualify | this organization, the elections and all the members that
> have
> | voted trying to give beginning to a constructive road.
>
> Mauro, only a few voice here are questioning the election results.
> Some have questioned our (my, Jefsey and Eric's) authority to conduct
> the election, and I can live with that: we did what needed doing. But
> I think the results we have seen, with positiove things finally
> happening for once, is more than justification for going through the
> grief we did!
>
> Please don't let a few strident voices deter you from what you see
> needs doing!
>
> Bruce Young
> Portland, Oregon USA
> bruce@barelyadequate.info
> http://www.barelyadequate.info
> --------------------------------------------
> Support democratic control of the Internet!
> Go to http://www.icannatlarge.org and Join ICANN At Large!
>
>
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: A/S Mauro D. Ríos [mailto:mdrios@adinet.com.uy]
> | Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 7:21 AM
> | To: Jeff Williams
> | Cc: Atlarge Discuss List
> | Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
> |
> |
> | Jeff,
> |
> | One cannot speak of the broken bridge without showing the hole. |
> | I would thank you a lot if you enumerate me your arguments to
> disqualify | this organization, the elections and all the members that
> have
> | voted trying
> | to give beginning to a constructive road.
> |
> | I know that you have contributed a lot of ink to the list on
> | this topic, but
> | I find that much of that ink has finished with other colors and |
> diversifying
> | the points of view to lands that anything or little has to do
> | with @Large or
> | anything or little affects @Large.
> |
> | The verbosity is not good friend to defend a point of view.
> |
> | Would also be appreciated you comment these arguments concretely, I
> don't | want to read to philosophize of @Large and thousand and a
> thematic | derivations as I have seen in the list of those who are
> placing stones in | the road.
> |
> | With pleasure we can exchange e-mails privately. Really desire
> | to understand
> | your point of view for that I don't share it at all. All know me and
> they | know that I respect the opinion of all, for that reason I want
> | to understand
> | your position. Mainly for that I am convinced that opponent's
> position is | easy, but when somebody is opposed something it should
> be for that has an | alternative.
> |
> | The organizations improve from inside, not to the margin. The
> | institutions
> | are built from inside not from the sidewalk in front.
> |
> | I promise you to respond minutely each one of your arguments
> | against @Large,
> | let us maybe coincide in some, but I believe that we won't
> | coincide in none.
> |
> | greetings,
> | Mauro. -
> |
> | ............................
> | [ES] No se puede hablar del puente roto sin mostrar el agujero. |
> | Yo te agradecería mucho si me enumeras tus argumentos para
> descalificar a | esta organización, las elecciones y todos los
> miembros que han votado | intentando dar comienzo a un camino
> constructivo.
> |
> | Se que has aportado mucha tinta a la lista sobre este tema, pero |
> me parece
> | que mucha de esa tinta ha terminado con otros colores y
> | diversificando los
> | puntos de vista a terrenos que nada o poco tienen que ver con
> | @Large o nada
> | o poco afectan a @Large.
> |
> | La verborragia no es buena amiga para defender un punto de vista. |
> | También te agradecería me comentes concretamente estos argumentos,
> no | quiciera leer filosofar sobre @Large y mil y una derivaciones
> | temáticas como
> | he visto en la lista de quienes están colocando piedras en el
> camino. |
> | Con gusto podemos intercambiar e-mails privadamente. Realmente deseo
> | entender tu punto de vista por que no lo comparto en absoluto. Todos
> me | conocen y saben que respeto la opinión de todos, por eso quiero |
> entender tu
> | posición. Sobre todo por que estoy convencido que la posición de |
> opositor es
> | fácil, pero cuando alguien se opone a algo debe ser por que tiene
> una | alternativa.
> |
> | Las organizaciones se mejoran desde adentro, no al margen. Las
> | instituciones
> | se construyen desde adentro no desde la vereda de enfrente.
> |
> | Te prometo responder minuciosamente cada uno de tus argumentos
> | en contra de
> | @Large, quizá coincidamos en alguno, pero creo que no coincidiremos
> en | ninguno.
> |
> | saludos,
> | Mauro.-
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | -----Mensaje original-----
> | De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> | Enviado el: Miércoles, 09 de Julio de 2003 12:02 a.m.
> | Para: Atlarge Discuss List
> | Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
> |
> |
> | Mauro and all fellow members,
> |
> | I am truly sorry that you or any member is stressed by the
> | truth. But sometimes the truth is stressful and must also sometimes
> | be repeated in order for those that refuse to accept it to take |
> honest head to it.
> |
> | The truth is also becoming more well known amongst
> | other organizations, governments, and law enforcement
> | agencies around the globe, regarding this fledgling
> | organization as has been pointed out from time to time
> | on this forum.
> |
> | You are right Mauro that either we start anew, or possibly we |
> may need to clean up the mess that Jefsey, Eric, and Bruce
> | yet again have created unnecessarily for the members of this
> | fledgling organization.
> |
> | A/S Mauro D. Ríos wrote:
> |
> | > Dear All,
> | >
> | > I have listened this too many times: "the panel is not
> legitimate." | > If it is this way and if this that we denominate
> Panel is only | a "group of
> | > members managing the organization", what does it impede to other
> 100 or | 1000
> | > members to be added to this group of people to contribute and to
> manage | the
> | > organization?. How they say here, there would be more caciques
> than | Indians.
> | >
> | > I believe that everything has a beginning point, in the case
> | of @Large has
> | > already attempted it other times and it always finishes on the |
> dot zero,
> | > reason why this it is a new beginning point and we should
> | assume this way
> | > it. The first election in the French Republic was not perfect, the
> | democracy
> | > of the Greeks was but restricted that a police sation, the Swiss |
> > organization of its so particular democracy was rejected in
> | the beginning.
> | >
> | > Gentlemen, if we continue saying that this panel is
> | illegitimate, please,
> | > let us make silence, let us suspend the whole activity and let |
> us begin to
> | > work to organize a new "legitimate" election, but to continue in
> these | gray
> | > areas only harms to @Large, internally and toward out since
> | are in front
> | of
> | > the eyes of many external people and many other organizations. |
> >
> | > greetings,
> | > Mauro. -
> | >
> | > .............................
> | > [ES] He escuchado esto demasiadas veces: "el panel no es
> legítimo". | > Si es así y si esto que denominamos Panel es sólo un
> "grupo de miembros | > manejando la organización", ¿qué impide a otros
> 100 o 1000 miembros | sumarse
> | > a este grupo de personas a contribuir y manejar la organización?.
> Cómo | dicen
> | > aquí, habría más caciques que indios.
> | >
> | > Creo que todo tiene un punto de inicio, en el caso de @Large ya lo
> ha | > intentado otras veces y termina siempre en punto cero, por lo |
> cual este es
> | > un nuevo punto de inicio y debemos asumirlo así. La primera
> | elección en la
> | > República Francesa no fue perfecta, la democracia de los
> | Griegos era mas
> | > restringida que una comisaría, la organización suiza de su tan |
> particular
> | > democracia fue rechazada en el inicio.
> | >
> | > Caballeros, si continuamos diciendo que este panel es ilegítimo,
> por | favor,
> | > hagamos silencio, suspendamos toda la actividad y comencemos a
> trabajar | para
> | > organizar una nueva elección "legítima", pero continuar en estas
> zonas | > grises sólo hace daño a @Large, internamente y hacia afuera
> ya | que estamos
> | > frente a los ojos de muchas personas externas y muchas otras
> | organizaciones.
> | >
> | > saludos,
> | > Mauro.-
> | >
> | > -----Mensaje original-----
> | > De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> | > Enviado el: Martes, 08 de Julio de 2003 06:09 a.m.
> | > Para: Walter Schmidt
> | > CC: Atlarge Discuss List
> | > Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
> | >
> | > Walter and all fellow members,
> | >
> | > There are no legitimate Panel members. We are seeing a repeat |
> > of the previous panel nonsense.
> | >
> | > This is a membership driven organization. Hence
> | > any policy must be approved by the members vote.
> | >
> | > There is not now, nor has there ever been a need for
> | > any member here to "Volunteer" as "Unpaid" for
> | > any actual "Work" of this fledgling organization.
> | > So complaining in defense of any member here
> | > of not being paid is a ruse and should be treated
> | > as such.
> | >
> | > Walter Schmidt wrote:
> | >
> | > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, it was written:
> | > >
> | > > > We deserve and need a fully active panel representing our
> group. | > >
> | > > ...and that's what we have - especially when we remember |
> they are all
> | > > unpaid volunteers!
> | > >
> | > > --
> | > >
> | > > --- REgards, walts@dorsai.org Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA
> | Blue(^) ---
> | > > - - Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition -
> | HPMC 873n ---
> | > > - - Associate Expert - Expert Zone
> | - -
> | > > --- http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ |
> ---
> | > > - -
> | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/columns/schmidt/ --- |
> > > - - 52 Ken http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/
> | Sun 57 - -
> | > >
> | > >
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> atlarge-discuss-help@lists.fitug.de | >
> | > Regards,
> | >
> | > --
> | > Jeffrey A. Williams
> | > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders
> strong!) | > "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from
> others" - | > Pierre Abelard
> | > =============================================================== |
> > CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security | >
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> | > E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> | > Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> | >
> | >
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> | Regards,
> |
> | --
> | Jeffrey A. Williams
> | Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders
> strong!) | "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from
> others" - | Pierre Abelard
> | =============================================================== |
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> | Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> | E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> | Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
> |
> |
> |
> |
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