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RE: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
Jeff,
One cannot speak of the broken bridge without showing the hole.
I would thank you a lot if you enumerate me your arguments to disqualify
this organization, the elections and all the members that have voted trying
to give beginning to a constructive road.
I know that you have contributed a lot of ink to the list on this topic, but
I find that much of that ink has finished with other colors and diversifying
the points of view to lands that anything or little has to do with @Large or
anything or little affects @Large.
The verbosity is not good friend to defend a point of view.
Would also be appreciated you comment these arguments concretely, I don't
want to read to philosophize of @Large and thousand and a thematic
derivations as I have seen in the list of those who are placing stones in
the road.
With pleasure we can exchange e-mails privately. Really desire to understand
your point of view for that I don't share it at all. All know me and they
know that I respect the opinion of all, for that reason I want to understand
your position. Mainly for that I am convinced that opponent's position is
easy, but when somebody is opposed something it should be for that has an
alternative.
The organizations improve from inside, not to the margin. The institutions
are built from inside not from the sidewalk in front.
I promise you to respond minutely each one of your arguments against @Large,
let us maybe coincide in some, but I believe that we won't coincide in none.
greetings,
Mauro. -
............................
[ES] No se puede hablar del puente roto sin mostrar el agujero.
Yo te agradecería mucho si me enumeras tus argumentos para descalificar a
esta organización, las elecciones y todos los miembros que han votado
intentando dar comienzo a un camino constructivo.
Se que has aportado mucha tinta a la lista sobre este tema, pero me parece
que mucha de esa tinta ha terminado con otros colores y diversificando los
puntos de vista a terrenos que nada o poco tienen que ver con @Large o nada
o poco afectan a @Large.
La verborragia no es buena amiga para defender un punto de vista.
También te agradecería me comentes concretamente estos argumentos, no
quiciera leer filosofar sobre @Large y mil y una derivaciones temáticas como
he visto en la lista de quienes están colocando piedras en el camino.
Con gusto podemos intercambiar e-mails privadamente. Realmente deseo
entender tu punto de vista por que no lo comparto en absoluto. Todos me
conocen y saben que respeto la opinión de todos, por eso quiero entender tu
posición. Sobre todo por que estoy convencido que la posición de opositor es
fácil, pero cuando alguien se opone a algo debe ser por que tiene una
alternativa.
Las organizaciones se mejoran desde adentro, no al margen. Las instituciones
se construyen desde adentro no desde la vereda de enfrente.
Te prometo responder minuciosamente cada uno de tus argumentos en contra de
@Large, quizá coincidamos en alguno, pero creo que no coincidiremos en
ninguno.
saludos,
Mauro.-
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 09 de Julio de 2003 12:02 a.m.
Para: Atlarge Discuss List
Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
Mauro and all fellow members,
I am truly sorry that you or any member is stressed by the
truth. But sometimes the truth is stressful and must also sometimes
be repeated in order for those that refuse to accept it to take
honest head to it.
The truth is also becoming more well known amongst
other organizations, governments, and law enforcement
agencies around the globe, regarding this fledgling
organization as has been pointed out from time to time
on this forum.
You are right Mauro that either we start anew, or possibly we
may need to clean up the mess that Jefsey, Eric, and Bruce
yet again have created unnecessarily for the members of this
fledgling organization.
A/S Mauro D. Ríos wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I have listened this too many times: "the panel is not legitimate."
> If it is this way and if this that we denominate Panel is only a "group of
> members managing the organization", what does it impede to other 100 or
1000
> members to be added to this group of people to contribute and to manage
the
> organization?. How they say here, there would be more caciques than
Indians.
>
> I believe that everything has a beginning point, in the case of @Large has
> already attempted it other times and it always finishes on the dot zero,
> reason why this it is a new beginning point and we should assume this way
> it. The first election in the French Republic was not perfect, the
democracy
> of the Greeks was but restricted that a police sation, the Swiss
> organization of its so particular democracy was rejected in the beginning.
>
> Gentlemen, if we continue saying that this panel is illegitimate, please,
> let us make silence, let us suspend the whole activity and let us begin to
> work to organize a new "legitimate" election, but to continue in these
gray
> areas only harms to @Large, internally and toward out since are in front
of
> the eyes of many external people and many other organizations.
>
> greetings,
> Mauro. -
>
> .............................
> [ES] He escuchado esto demasiadas veces: "el panel no es legítimo".
> Si es así y si esto que denominamos Panel es sólo un "grupo de miembros
> manejando la organización", ¿qué impide a otros 100 o 1000 miembros
sumarse
> a este grupo de personas a contribuir y manejar la organización?. Cómo
dicen
> aquí, habría más caciques que indios.
>
> Creo que todo tiene un punto de inicio, en el caso de @Large ya lo ha
> intentado otras veces y termina siempre en punto cero, por lo cual este es
> un nuevo punto de inicio y debemos asumirlo así. La primera elección en la
> República Francesa no fue perfecta, la democracia de los Griegos era mas
> restringida que una comisaría, la organización suiza de su tan particular
> democracia fue rechazada en el inicio.
>
> Caballeros, si continuamos diciendo que este panel es ilegítimo, por
favor,
> hagamos silencio, suspendamos toda la actividad y comencemos a trabajar
para
> organizar una nueva elección "legítima", pero continuar en estas zonas
> grises sólo hace daño a @Large, internamente y hacia afuera ya que estamos
> frente a los ojos de muchas personas externas y muchas otras
organizaciones.
>
> saludos,
> Mauro.-
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> Enviado el: Martes, 08 de Julio de 2003 06:09 a.m.
> Para: Walter Schmidt
> CC: Atlarge Discuss List
> Asunto: Re: [atlarge-discuss] A Fully Active Panel...
>
> Walter and all fellow members,
>
> There are no legitimate Panel members. We are seeing a repeat
> of the previous panel nonsense.
>
> This is a membership driven organization. Hence
> any policy must be approved by the members vote.
>
> There is not now, nor has there ever been a need for
> any member here to "Volunteer" as "Unpaid" for
> any actual "Work" of this fledgling organization.
> So complaining in defense of any member here
> of not being paid is a ruse and should be treated
> as such.
>
> Walter Schmidt wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, it was written:
> >
> > > We deserve and need a fully active panel representing our group.
> >
> > ...and that's what we have - especially when we remember they are all
> > unpaid volunteers!
> >
> > --
> >
> > --- REgards, walts@dorsai.org Walter C. Schmidt, IT CPA Blue(^) ---
> > - - Microsoft MVP - Windows XP Media Center Edition - HPMC 873n ---
> > - - Associate Expert - Expert Zone - -
> > --- http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/ ---
> > - - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/columns/schmidt/ ---
> > - - 52 Ken http://www.dorsai.org/~walts/ Sun 57 - -
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-discuss-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
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>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
> Pierre Abelard
> ===============================================================
> CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
> E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
>
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Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 131k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Be precise in the use of words and expect precision from others" -
Pierre Abelard
===============================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801
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