Re: [atlarge-discuss] Democratic process

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Judyth and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,.

  Judyth restates some very good observations and makes some good suggestions
here.  (More comments below Judyth's points)

espresso@e-scape.net wrote:

> At 11:59 +0200 2002/09/25, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> >Then if this is the problem, call a vote among the panel! Are you the Chair
> >or not? Joanna, this issue is blowing up the organization. Please >understand we have to get out of it NOW.
>
> I think some of us have been saying that for a good week now, one way and another.

  Indeed true.  It is good that you and Vittorio has affirmed that.  I am sure
others may wish to do so also.

>
>
> Since some are likely to misunderstand this again, let me spell it out that in most organzations the process is simple and works well.
>
> 1. The Chair of the executive body raises an issue with that body (as a whole) and asks for discussion and (sooner or later) a resolution on how the problem is to be resolved. A vote is called.

  This need to be a two way street.  The body, as you put it must raise as individuals
any issue that they find concerning or worth discussion as long as it is within
the purview of that body as well as the executive raising issues with that body.
Agenda's with and @large or an Assembly must never be a one way street lest
we relegate ourselves to being sheep that can be lead to the premature shearing...

>
>
> 2. If the resolution passes, the action it calls for is taken, after due notice to the membership about what has been resolved and why. However, if the resolution fails to pass, whether because of clear objections or because a formal vote by that body has not been called, no such action is taken.

  Good point here...

>
>
> 3. If the issue is a matter of policy (which includes internal matters like how membership votes are to be conducted and the mandates of elected representatives, as well as relations with external bodies), the membership will normally be asked to ratify the executive body's decision, will have the opportunity to propose amendments, and will accept or reject the resulting motion. If it passes, it becomes part of the bylaws of the organization and serves as a precedent for the future.

  No.  If the body/membership or any member of the body/membership in an @large
structure or and assembly is put forward and receives a second, than a vote
must commence whether or not the executive chooses to endorse such.
The Executive's duties here should be to see that such votes are carried out,
and after completed and if passed, they should see to it that such policies
are implemented or carried out.

>
>
> Where an emergency situation arises, one does *not* dispense with the procedure. The Chair is already responsible for making sure due process is followed and any crisis resolved quickly.

  Yes this would be a good idea.  However we do not yet have a chair.  What we
do have is a PANEL CHAIR that has a limited mandate.  To have a CHAIR
of the membership and organization we would need to have an election to include
the duties that said chair would have and be responsible for.  Those should
be in the bylaws.

>
>
> That could still be done, by following the current ballot with a vote by the membership to either accept or set aside the results, and whatever other resolutions the Panel or members see fit to put forward.

  This should also be a two way street.  The executive should never set the agenda
for and large or assembly.  That is and has shown to be a path to destruction
and disgruntlement, and rightly so. Any member should be able freely, put forth
any resolution, and upon seconding, be voted upon by the members.

> It appears that, for whatever reason, fewer than 200 valid ballots were cast and the name "ICANNatlarge.org" has been chosen by those who chose to vote.

  Lack of interested members would seem to likely be the major contributor
to the lack of turnout or member voting participation.

>
>
> >We have to work to fix the website management
> >problems, get our mailing lists up and running, re-start growing...
>
> I still think we need to recognize that, without some kind of written agreement on what this group's mission and structure will be, any attempts at recruiting or fundraising would be premature.

  Horse and wagon here Judyth.  But a good point that needs to be debated
and than voted upon by the now existing membership, IMHO.  It would
seem very obvious that without funding and recruiting, we cannot build
a war chest of assets by which we can make our positions be acknowledged
adaquately.  Money is the mothers milk of politics.  Make not mistake,
we are in a political struggle whether any of us like it or not.  That battle line
was drawn clearly in '99 by Esther Dyson.  Sense that time the battle has
been raging to and fro..  If we are to weigh in in any meaningful manner
we MUST have funding and a sizable membership.  But you are also right
that we must know what we stand for.  Hence through voting on our basic
principals as stakeholders/users, we can at the same time, make that clear.

>
>
> There is a word already for growth without order or purpose: "cancer".

  Agreed.  Such a "Cancer" must be avoided or if already infected, cut away.
Order from the top down, is such a cancer as well.  We must be careful to
also not contract that "Cancer" as well as it surely kills or destroys democracy.

> Those who joined this group are still hoping that's not what is happening here. The sooner we have an agreement on what we will be doing and how, the easier it will be for the various working groups to pull together towards a common goal as use this list and any others for doing what we need to do.

  Working Groups are specific to a single goal or limited set of goals.  Hence
they must not work together towards a common goal lest they will never
achieve their specific goals individually.

>
>
> My opinion, however unpopular it may be...
>
> Judyth
>
> ##########################################################
> Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
> ##########################################################
> "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> ##########################################################
>
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Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



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