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[atlarge-discuss] Re: [atlarge-panel] Supporting an At Large Alliance outside ICANN
So is THIS the Real At Large?
And if the various At Large groups congregate as part of Icann's structure
at www.at-large.org then does that lend the fake structure a legitimacy and
re-inforce the expulsion of our representatives from the Board?
Wouldn't it be better to lend legitimacy to OUR OWN coalition as the real At
Large by participating in an independent structure at www.atlarge.org ?
If we are willing to participate in a structure INSIDE Icann (which is a
mischievous initiative and the rogue Board's initiative), then why aren't we
willing to participate in a structure OUTSIDE Icann (which would publicise
both our independence, our condemnation of the Icann Board, and our shared
coalition of believers in decisive User participation)?
I repeat my question: is it better to show the world www.at-large.org or to
show the world www.atlarge.org ? Which is a more legitimate structure and
concept, Icann's initiative or OUR initiative.
Our panel voted 4 for, 4 against, and 1 abstention last week on the
www.atlarge.org concept.
Can we not create a rallying point for ALL At Large groups, but not the
Icann rallying point?
Or... insanely... is THIS the Real At Large? (taken from
http://www.at-large.org/at-large-structures.htm ):
At-Large Structures:
Worldwide
Name: icannatlarge.com
Website: www.icannatlarge.com
Forum/Mail list: www.icannatlarge.com/forum/ and
atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de (subscribe by
sending an empty message to atlarge-discuss-subscribe@lists.fitug.de;
archives
at www.fitug.de/atlarge-discuss/)
Email:
info@icannatlarge.com
Contacts: http://www.icannatlarge.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=16 (for public
questions to the Elected Panel)
Africa
Name: Internet Society Madagascar
Website: www.isoc.mg/cop/isoc
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
isoc-mg@ird.mg
Contacts: Andriamparany Marius, marius@refer.mg, Ramboasalama Haja,
ramboa@ird.mg
Name: Internet Society Madagascar
Website: www.isoc.mg/cop/isoc
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
isoc-mg@ird.mg
Contacts: Andriamparany Marius, marius@refer.mg, Ramboasalama Haja,
ramboa@ird.mg
Asia-Pacific
Name: Internet Society Benin
Website: www.isoc.bj
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Pierre Dandjinou, infocom@avu.org, Yaovi Attohoun ,
Yatoh@intnet.bj, Thierry Amoussougbo, Amsiat@sdnpben.org.bj
Europe
Name: Internet Society Bulgaria
Website: www.isoc.bg
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
isoc-bg@isoc.bg
Contacts: Veni Markovski, icannatlarge@isoc.bg
Name: Confederation of European Computer User Associations (CECUA)
Website: www.cecua.org
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Alain Moscowitz, alain.moscowitz@cecua.org, Tom Jacobsen,
JacobsenTom@acm.org
Name: Sistemas Técnicos de Enseñanza Consultores (STEC)
Website: www.stec.info
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
ateneas@retemail.es
Contacts: Núria de la Fuente Teixidó, ateneas@retemail.es
Name: ISOC Finland
Website: www.siy.fi
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Tommi Karttaavi, tommi.karttaavi@iki.f
Name: ISOC Italy
Website: www.isoc.it
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Vittorio Bertola, vb@vitaminic.net
Name: ISOC European Co-ordination Council (ECC)
Website: www.isoc-ecc.org
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
info@isoc-ecc.org
Contacts: Anne Deschuyteneer, secretariat@isoc-ecc.org
Latin America/Caribbean
Name: Internet Society Argentina Chapter
Website: www.isoc.org.ar
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
emv@southtech.com.ar
Contacts: Gonzalo Auza gonzalo@juandegaray.org.ar, Edmundo Valenti
emv@southtech.com.ar
Name: LatinoamerICANN
Website: www.latinoamericann.derecho.org.ar
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
legales@derecho.org.ar
Contacts: Gabriel Piñeiro legales@derecho.org.ar,
Erick Iriarte Ahon faia@amauta.rcp.net.pe
North America
Name: Institute for the Study of Information Technology and Society
(InSITeS)
Website: www.cmu.edu/insites
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Peter M. Shane, pshane@andrew.cmu.edu, Prof. Ramayya Krishnan,
rk2x@andrew.cmu.edu
Name: Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (Civil Society
Democracy Proj.)
Website: www.CPSR.org (www.CivSoc.org)
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
Contacts: Hans Klein, hans.klein@pubpolicy.gatech.edu, Andy Oram"
andyo@oreilly.com
Name: California Democratic Party, Computer & Internet Caucus
Website: www.ca-dem-net.org
Forum/Mail list:
Email:
RBHauptman@aol.com
Contacts: Rick Hauptman, RBHauptman@aol.com
I'm sorry, but by our very presence, we add credibility to everything that
Icann is trying to do. We need an alternative, highly public rallying point
for all the real At Large organisations in the world.
Richard Henderson
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
To: James Love <james.love@cptech.org>
Cc: <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [atlarge-panel] Supporting an At Large Alliance outside ICANN
> James,
>
> IcannatLarge.org is an organisation seeking to have a specific mission and
> developing a specific viewpoint. Indeed you and some other panelists have
> urged that we keep its mission tight, narrow, well-focussed and very
> specific.
>
> My proposal for www.atlarge.org is that it should NOT be an organisation
at
> all, that it should simply be a resource for ALL At Large groups and
> sympathetic parties. It should NOT have a specific mission. It should be a
> platform for diversity, expressed bottom up from all around the world. It
> should NOT have a specific viewpoint. It should simply be a channel for
MANY
> viewpoints. It should NOT have a narrow mandate, focussed on working
within
> Icann. It should be as broad as possible to embrace as many disparate
groups
> as possible.
>
> I think you see it as an alternative to Icannatlarge.org and therefore as
> some kind of threat. It is intended to be a rallying point for an At Large
> movement which is broader and more disparate than IcannatLarge.org. A
> resource and a rallying point.
>
> It is COMPLETELY different to IcannatLarge.org
>
> Why would anyone NOT want such a way of bringing together varied At Large
> initiatives, at a focal point of expression (while those groups would, of
> course, maintain their own independence)?
>
> The key weakness in our own IcannatLarge.org is that we cannot claim to
> represent the whole At Large. What about all the other groups who are also
> engaged in the cause of more say for internet users? THE atlarge is a
> multiplicity, and I believe we should acknowledge that and make a strength
> of that, embrace the bottom-up nature of a multiplicity of user-groups and
> other interested groups.
>
> My proposal for www.atlarge.org is that it should be used to explore
> coalition. It should provide an unbiased rallying point for the many
voices
> of the At Large.
>
> This is a proposal which is related to Icannatlarge.org, but separate from
> it. The point is, though, that we at IcannatLarge.org appear to hold
control
> of the DN (unless Marc still does) and therefore I am appealling for the
> name to be released for this exploratory project unless anyone else has a
> better use for it.
>
> Richard
>
>
> Richard H
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Love <james.love@cptech.org>
> To: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: <atlarge-panel@lists.fitug.de>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [atlarge-panel] Supporting an At Large Alliance outside ICANN
>
>
> > Richard, could you explain why you are proposing another group,
coalition
> or
> > whatever? How is it different from icannatlarge.org?
> >
> >
> >
> > Richard Henderson wrote:
> > > I am writing to propose an alliance for all At Large members,
> supporters,
> > > groups and also sympathetic organisations who want to publicly back
the
> > > principles of a worldwide AtLarge movement.
> > >
> > > What is the AtLarge movement? It is the coalition of individuals and
> groups
> > > who believe that millions of ordinary internet users should be fully
> > > represented in the way the Internet and its DNS is administered.
> > >
> > > At present, this function is carried out by Icann, which is a largely
> > > unaccountable clique of 'insiders' who have thrown out the user
> > > representatives that were supposed to sit on its Board.
> > >
> > > To contain dissent, Icann has developed a site at www.at-large.org
which
> > > purports to represent the cause of users, but is actually a top-down
> effort
> > > to control the disenfranchised voices of the internet public.
> > >
> > > The real AtLarge, where users can speak for themselves, is to be found
> at
> > > groups like IcannatLarge.org/.com and a wide variety of local and
> regional
> > > organisations. Beyond these groups, the AtLarge is - quite simply -
all
> the
> > > people in the world who benefit from this world resource.
> > >
> > > For the Internet is a precious world resource, for sharing
information,
> for
> > > communicating and educating, for development and co-operation, for
> families,
> > > for children, for the lonely, the creative, for everyone. It is 'OUR'
> > > internet, with so much potential for good - and yet it is being
> administered
> > > by a tiny clique in league with wealthy players, who have locked out
the
> > > representatives of the world's ordinary users by removing them from
its
> > > Board.
> > >
> > > In response to Icann's www.at-large.org (which is trying to contain
the
> > > AtLarge community inside an Icann committee) I propose the
construction
> of
> > > www.atlarge.org (currently registered for the real AtLarge community).
> > >
> > > This construction was first proposed by Jefsey Morfin, and the concept
> is to
> > > create an umbrella where a coalition of AtLarge organisations and
> supporting
> > > individuals can unite in an alliance OUTSIDE Icann and its mechanisms,
> and
> > > yet demand a restoration of representation for ordinary people at its
> heart.
> > >
> > > The operation of www.atlarge.org would be truly bottom-up, by enabling
a
> > > multiplicity of voices and groups to post to sub-domains and create a
> real,
> > > diverse, and bottom-up voice for the true AtLarge community.
> > >
> > > Thus an atlarge group in France might develop www.france.atlarge.org
or
> a
> > > group in London might develop www.london.atlarge.org . Brazil users
> might
> > > develop www.brasil.atlarge.org and whole regions could also
participate,
> > > developing identity for example at www.africa.atlarge.org .
> > >
> > > Equally, ordinary internet users wishing to develop debate on
important
> > > issues might participate at www.registrars.atlarge.org or
> > > www.transfers.atlarge.org to publicise AtLarge voices on matters of
> internet
> > > governance. Those wishing to protect AtLarge interests in Icann's
'mock'
> > > atlarge mechanism, could publicise their dealings at
> www.icann.atlarge.org .
> > >
> > > The significance lies in insisting that, while the AtLarge seeks to be
> an
> > > integral part of Icann for as long as Icann exists, the real AtLarge
is
> far
> > > bigger than Icann, and exists OUTSIDE it in the real world, as an
> > > independent movement and coalition.
> > >
> > > Thus I am proposing the construction of www.atlarge.org in direct
> > > juxtaposition to the Icann-invented www.at-large.org (with a hyphen -
> which
> > > is being used to 'legitimise' the disenfranchisement of the AtLarge
> > > community, and its expulsion from the Icann Board).
> > >
> > > This act of expulsion - against the whole spirit of the Internet and
> indeed
> > > contrary to Icann's own mandate - is an affront to ordinary users
> > > everywhere, and in the long-term could threaten freedoms and truth.
The
> > > control of the DNS and how the Internet operates is a matter of huge
> > > potential importance.
> > >
> > > To this end, I propose that supporting organisations and groups are
> invited
> > > to post pages at www.atlarge.org in order to broaden and publicise the
> > > political and moral dimension of the struggle for internet freedom.
So,
> a
> > > group of Greens in Scotland could post support and views at
> > > www.green.atlarge.org and democrats in Canada could develop a dialogue
> too
> > > at www.democrat.atlarge.org .
> > >
> > > The construction I propose is an ever-broadening multiplicity, the
> creation
> > > of an umbrella for an AtLarge coalition - not an organisation itself,
> but
> > > purely a facility, under the guardianship of sympathetic AtLarge
> > > representatives.
> > >
> > > Unless the AtLarge community establishes a rallying point, and an
> alliance
> > > of protesting voices, visible to the public and the US government
which
> > > protects Icann, the cause of ordinary people will be engulfed in
Icann's
> > > false 'at-large' and marginalised to powerless committees and
> > > sub-committees, lost in a labyrinth of procedures, designed to
sideline
> the
> > > very people all over the world who should be at the heart of Internet
> > > governance : its ordinary users.
> > >
> > > I therefore urge the adoption of this proposal - on a provisional one
> year
> > > basis to discover how well it works, in the cause of internet freedom
> and
> > > the voices of the AtLarge.
> > >
> > > I am part of the panel, elected by ordinary users, at
IcannatLarge.org.
> This
> > > organisation is sincerely upholding the cause of representation of
> ordinary
> > > users. It is not threatened by the www.atlarge.org proposal. The
> proposal is
> > > an added facility, creating a vital link with the other AtLarge
> initiatives.
> > > Indeed, I hope that IcannatLarge.org may act as a guardian, and
support
> the
> > > rallying together of all AtLarge communities.
> > >
> > > I care about my own organisation, but I care about all the other
AtLarge
> > > groups around the world as well, because in our different ways and
with
> > > diverse voices, we share ideals and we deeply believe that Internet
> users
> > > should play a central part in the protection of the Internet.
> > >
> > > When it comes to AtLarge groups we do not think 'them' and 'us' : it
is
> > > 'we' - a multiplicity of groups, a coalition of voices - who can most
> > > effectively present to the world the REAL AtLarge. We need to argue
our
> > > case, on our own ground, not Icann's, from a position of coalition and
> > > strength.
> > >
> > > The construction of www.atlarge.org will stand in direct juxtaposition
> to
> > > www.at-large.org (Icann's pretence), to highlight the lie, and will be
> an
> > > act of defiance saying to Icann and even the US Government : we shall
> NEVER
> > > be subsumed, we reject our expulsion, we will fight for the millions
of
> > > ordinary people, for the voice of free people everywhere : we are
many,
> you
> > > are few. We are diverse. We are bottom-up. We are HERE!
> > >
> > > Richard Henderson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: atlarge-panel-unsubscribe@lists.fitug.de
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: atlarge-panel-help@lists.fitug.de
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------
> > James Love, Consumer Project on Technology
> > http://www.cptech.org, mailto:love@cptech.org
> > voice: 1.202.387.8030; mobile 1.202.361.3040
> >
> >
>
>
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