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Re: [atlarge-discuss] Re: the preview icannatlarge.org site...



On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 07:28, J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:
> 
> Encryption has nothing to do with security. Security is about 
> spoofing. Internet is a spoofing system.

Well... let's just say encryption is but one tool in a total security
solution. On a wide-open public network, it's a prerequisite for
transactional security. I don't understand the Minitel architecture
enough to know whether it's more POTS style (circuit-based) or more
Internet style, but it doesn't sit well with me if credit card bits,
etc. are not encrypted.

Anyway, you're preaching to the choir about encryption not equaling
security. I agree with that. :)

> America is fucking by phone and payng through ceditcards. Other style.

True, but I'm saying that I'd be worried an American-tel network would
not be content neutral if it were run by U.S. Congress. I demand content
neutrality from my networks (TV, Internet, telephone, etc.).  While
French gov't censors Nazi propaganda, U.S. Congress would be censoring
sexually explicit material. 

so, I agree with you that we have different styles, Minitel and
Internet, France and U.S. (and China, Canada, etc.).

As a programmer, I don't see why these all cannot coexist and I think
they should be, at least at the network level, "compatible", or at least
"able to be compatible with some software hand-holding".

> main application is telephone directory, then e-government, local life, 
> cinema, etc. etc.. quick, cheap, millions of simple users. Minitel set is 
> free. You cannot do that in a country where you have several operators.

I have to beg to differ, here. I can name several U.S.-wide Internet
telephone directories that all have slightly different "perks". The free
press have always covered cinema, local life, etc. so we've never
bothered centralizing that data -- it's unnecessary. Texas has an open
government initiative that has been putting gov't information and
services online for several years now. The same is true of the national
gov't...  I can file my taxes online, collect unemployment without
waiting in line at the office downtown, etc.

Minitel may have done it _first_, but it's not true that "You cannot do
that in a country where you have several operators". It may be true that
the Minitel system is simpler (i.e., has less choices, though the
choices may be higher quality). I cannot speak to that.

> That lead to the real thing: to network the French people. Machines, 
> applications, etc.. are nothing, what really count is noosphere, the 
> people, the habitus.

exactly. Some people decry the downfall of the neighborhood, but the
fact is, my neighbors are idiots for the most part. I *don't* want to
hang out with them. I'd rather talk to and code with friends across the
globe than have a neighborhood barbecue.

for example, see the Debian developers' map:
http://www.debian.org/devel/developers.loc

> The secret of Minitel is that anyone can host a system for you, software to 
> build and load pages are ofthen free, hosting cheap and connecting a 
> service makes you gain money. You may not pay and make very stable money.
> 
> Try to beat that :-)

actually, this is the promise of broadband for small businesses here in
the States. unfortunately, broadband companies have been mismanaged
(overselling) and hamstrung by government-sponsored monopolies (i.e.,
the ILEC problem) seeking to expand their control over the wired 'Net.

my DirecTV DSL service has 160,000 customers and they can't turn a
profit so they're closing shop. I had my personal website running off my
box here and now I've got to move it. I imagine many business customers
of theirs will be doing the same thing.

> There are several "TLDs". equivalent to ORG is free, COM is cheap, NET os 
> more expensive, etc... This permits very sophisticated expensive services 
> to be in direct access. You just modulate the speed of display and short 
> cut to make casual users to pay more than regular users or even direct 
> computer access.

that must be a French thing cause it violates my sensibility that QoS
should be content neutral. If QoS is a problem, that tells me you need
to upgrade the network, not just hack it to give priority to X
customer's data over Y customer's data. To use an extreme example,
remote surgery should not cause a slowdown in porn downloads, or vice
versa.

In the long run, your system may be better. It just doesn't sit well
with me, that's all. :)

-s

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