Re: [atlarge-discuss] The Point of this

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Jefsey and all,

J-F C. (Jefsey) Morfin wrote:

> Dear Jeff,
> I think it is a very good post. Let me address it the way a few of us try
> and what we could to to help.

  Thank you.  More below your comments and answers to my posed questions
below...

>
>
> On 05:17 23/01/03, Jeff Williams said:
> >   I prefer Mayo!  >;)  But seriously, the most appropriate thing to say
> >is nothing unless you can back it up with action, and yes that nasty
> >stuff called MONEY...  Taking a poll is not action of any real substance.
> >Good works, is!
>
> Absolutely true. We have a few good work and money invested in here.
> Joop invested in the booth and in the forum. Money and work.

  Indeed he did. But as you recall all of the MONEY came from
elswhere and went into Joops pocket.  Yet we still do not own
the Voting Booth.  Not a good investment in money, and only
a barely adequate investment in effort and work.  Joops forum
was not well liked or well used.

>
> I invested in the DNS and dot-root, too much money and work.

  Understood.

>
> Abel invested a machine in dot-root. Pascal invested 4. Other who
> may not want to be disclosed invested 8.

  4 what?  8 What?

>
>
> >Take a lesson from Gandhi or Martin Luther King
> >for instance.  They went against the trend, and were very successful.
> >Why?  Well they worked VERY hard, put their own MONEY, effort,
> >and ideas on the line every day until they were successful.  In other
> >words they SACRIFICED...
>
> True. If I keep with Joop and I I know better (but what about
> Judyth and Joe's time). Long hours of works.

  Joe who?  Judyths contributing have been useful indeed.

>
>
> >IN the above vain let me ask you the following and perhaps you can
> >or should ask yourself these questions in one form or another:
> >
> >1.) What are any member or any of the members doing on a daily basis
> >      to gather funding for ICANNATLARGE.ORG or any real serious
> >      amount?
>
> Money is not the first thing. It comes after.

  Here is where we disagree.  Nothing of any consequence in today's
IT atmosphere can be accomplished without serious $$.  We need those
funds and a good method of collecting such funds first..

> The first thing is the
> decision to do something. Then to start it seriously.

  Nobody is going to do much unless they have the funds and
tools to do it with...

> Then it money
> huntnig becomes a priority. But you have to do in this order (at
> least in non-US area [USA might be different because of the tax
> deduction practice]) in order to comit yourself vis a vis others.
> If you just look for money no one cares. If you do something and
> need money to continue, people understand better, may be
> more interested and your personal reputation is both engaged
> and a waranty. You oblige yourself to suceed.
>
> >2.) What can you do to aid in getting the Bylaws written and reviewed
> >and what are you doing to to get them written?
>
> I think we are a certain number trying to make other understand
> and accept that bylaws are of no prirority, but that mission
> statement is. So at last we know what we want to be:
> - PAC
> - a constituency
> - a crowed of internet co-owners wanting to be considered.

  Here is yet another area where we disagree.  A mission statement
can change depending on what our Articles of incorporation and Bylaws
are...

>
>
> >3.) What are you, the panel, or any other member doing to get
> >      ICANNATLARGE.ORG registered as a legal entity of some
> >      type that is agreeable to the membership?
>
> Lobbying among ourselves so we can proceed as follows:
>
> 1. Joop's booth to be used in the simplest way and
>      properly organised with polling officers and entrusted
>      the members list (until a decision can be made
>      about a Membership organization)

  Joops booth for polling is one good idea.  Not for voting though..
Rather an independent polling system or mechanism and voting system
is badly needed as very few of the members trust the Panel or other
members.

>
> 2. a list of Members questions to be gathered and
>      endorsed/rebuilt at least by two panel Members
>      (to avoid repetitions)

  I agree here.  But the method in which this could be effected was
blocked by Hans, that being the Panel list...

>
> 3. to use that questions for a gallup about what Members
>      want.
> 4. from this to have the Panel proceeding the same
>      way to propose a few mission statement alternatives.

  We have been over and over this to no avail Jefsey.  It is time for
a more dramatic and permanent change in the Panel makeup.

>
> 5. them to be voted by the Members
> 6. to proceed according to this mission statement to
>      know how to proceed in order to incorporate one or
>      several entities servicing the political, technical and
>      relational needs of our members.

  Cart before horse here again, Jefsey.  A mission statement or even
multiple mission statements can come and go as we move forward or
in several directions on several issues.  Members must take the lead
here to insure that whatever representation that we elect has all the
facts, positions and opinions and than can disperse those back out to
the members for a vote.

>
>
> >4.) What are you or any other member doing to get the Articles of
> >       Incorporation drafted?
>
> For too premature. I am delaying as much as I can but I
> start asking myself if it is a good thing the Articles of
> atlarge/ws to support the @large naming plan.

  Ok.  I appreciate your position here.  The longer the delay, the
less legitimate we become as an organization.

>
>
> >5.) What recent conferences that have been posted to this forum has
> >any or most of the members of ICANNATLARGE.ORG attended
> >in the past 6 months that are relevant to this fledgling
> >organization?
>
> I just published a 200 pages study over the dot-root project
> (in French) and had several meetings, agreements etc. over
> that project which is the only one where @large can really
> share into the internet governance and probably change it.

  And it was a good study report I thought...

>
>
> Words are useless if they do not end in acts. I am
> quite surprised to see the small number of us ready to
> enact their words.

  I am as well.  That is why action must be taken.  Starting with
replacing the current Panel, IMHO...  If we don't replace the Panel
we will be so ICANN like we will get little if anything accomplished
of substance or more importantly, in accordance with the support
of the members.  We than, or already, will start to implode...

>
>
> Is that because they do not understand our words?
> I would accept that in my case, but I am not the only one!

  No I think the understanding is there just fine.  It is the will that
is not there...

>
>
> >6.) Which or how many members are working (Door Knocking, ect.)
> >to gather and grow the membership or this fledgling organization.
>
> There are two types of evangelization, of outreach.
> By action and by example, most of the people are
> oriented to the second one.

  Agreed.

> Action can be by words
> of the mouth (as Richard and Bruce are good at) or
> by work of the brain/hands (as Joop, Abel, Joey and
> myself are more interested in).

Yet we have no official structure, much like the now long defunct IDNO...

>
>
> I must say that door knocking is somehing which
> needs a day to day effort and which needs a doctrine
> of what you evangelize.

  Indeed.  But a general statement of what we evangelize is all that
is really needed to start with.  Eric already provided that.  Now we
need to get on with the Door-Knocking...  But to do the  Door-Knocking
we need $$ to support those doing the  Door-Knocking...  Money first,
than action of growing the membership ranks further...

> Since we have no doctrine,
> we need to propose some actions. I propose dot-root,
> I propose multilingual support (IDNs, multilingual
> sites, WSIS participation through parallel structures)
> as Hans and Jamie do through their organizations.
>
> We have this after noon a General assembly at the
> Versailles Chamber of Commerce (20% of the
> French economy) for Eurolinc an European
> organization relating with the Minc, supported by
> Europe, participating into the WSIS, boostrapped
> by the French co-founders of the Internet (1970-1980).
> This is a true @large spin-off together with fall-outs
> of the national ISOC yearly meeting.
>
> jfc

Regards,

--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 129k members/stakeholders strong!)
================================================================
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 214-244-3801



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