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RE: [atlarge-discuss] Provisional Membership Committee
Michael,
When I moved out to the USA to live there, I had of course no longer a
cc from my old bank, nor was it easy to establlish a new one with my new
bank, I was given the card of a friend/family member to use and with
htat card registered a personal, meaning under my email, paypal account.
The name and address of that account, which to day I still use, beit
that I changed the bank and card data long since, have never resembled
the card used.
The address was changed while the owner of the card lived on the old
address (which was never mine to begin with) and my delivery address was
!= to the card address.
Stolen cc's are just as big a problem on paypal as they are with any
merchant account, I just had a reversal which nowadays is also charged
at $ 10 by paypal (this used to be free)while all data was fully
confirmed, for us it would mean that verification would have been made,
since the money is paid back, the chargeback will never occur and no one
will ever know that a stolen card was used.
Stolen cards and the corresponding data are freely available for any
savvy internet user. The cc companies do nothing to stop this as long as
it remains more then profitable for them, which at this moment in time
it is.
Henceforth we can safely conclude that any verification method involving
paypal or credit cards is not a safe bet.
Copy of a drivers license (used only with very strict restrictions on
the receiving end and never to be disclosed to the full membership) or
passport (same) along with a preferably public phonenumber, website,
email, history, company data and or like in my case a secure certificate
and such more can lead to almost being sure whether people are who they
say they are. In no case will the method used be alike, therefore we can
not yet use any method to verify the membership.
Bank tranfers, cheques etc are way to expensive internationally to evern
contemplate using them.
In the end it will boild down to sending snailmail to people as well as
a combination of other things or in the very end a atlarge web of trust.
Once guidelines have been set for people in that web of trust on how to
verify other members, (pop over and show me your drivers license or
passport and two pieces of official mail to your current address) we
will always have some form of risk.
I propose that those that are verified beyond doubt can be the first web
of trust verifiers once everyone agrees on the method.
abel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Micheal Sherrill [mailto:micheal@beethoven.com]
> Sent: 02 June 2003 03:16
> To: 'Atlarge Discuss List'
> Subject: RE: [atlarge-discuss] Provisional Membership Committee
>
>
>
> Hello Abel:
>
> Your quote: (I can enter multiple addresses using multiple
> credit cards of which none have to be in my name, meaning I
> can use a paypal account under several names using different cards).
>
> I do not think this is true. A credit card has to be
> attached to someone via a bank. Here in the United States
> you have to present a valid photo ID (driver's license,
> military identification, passport, etc.) and your Social
> Security Number (SSN) card to a bank representative to get a
> credit card. Which is not issued immediately. It only comes
> to one after a credit check. If there is no link to the
> photo ID and SSN that provides sufficient information to the
> bank the card is not issued. Now, any protocol can be
> hacked. But, I do not see that amount of resources being
> used to spoof this organization. Of course, there are
> (secured) credit cards that only allow one to charge the
> amount that the card holder deposited beforehand in the
> account. I am not sure, but one would think that PayPal has
> procedure for this type of card, as well.
>
> You claim that you can enter several names under various
> credit cards for the same account. Have you done this?
>
> As for phone calls, they only ascertain that someone can be
> reached at the other end. Is Joey there, yes that is me. Is
> Jeff there, yes that is me. Is Micheal there, yes that is
> me. Is Abel there, yes that is me. It proves nothing is
> real except the phone number.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Micheal Sherrill
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Abel Wisman" <abel@able-towers.com>
> Reply-To: <abel@able-towers.com>
> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 03:07:35 +0100
>
> And by doing so allowed every reader of this list to see his address.
>
> Nonetheless I repeat two things:
>
> Paypal is not a valid verification system, I can enter
> multiple addresses using multiple credit cards of which none
> have to be in my name, meaning I can use a paypal account
> under several names using different cards.
>
> The various ways used by the verification committee were at
> least more satisfactoryas that they ascertained on a per case
> base all the evidence given, including phonecalls, to
> ascertain the identification of any individual.
>
> Finally it has also become clear from various postings on
> this list that the there are several votes that want Joey
> Borda and his current team to continue their efforts, why not
> join them instead of posting results on yet another website
> and using a system that as for now anyone yet has to support.
>
> Regards
>
> Abel
>
>
>
>
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