Re: [atlarge-discuss] Who are you really?

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

I'd agree that this is an important argument you're making here, Danny. Are
people wanting power because they want power, or participation because they
want participation, or either of those things because they are engaged in
some/various of the issues you list and they want to enhance user benefits
on the net through serious development of those issues?

In defence of this organisation - and having spent an entire day today on
mostly this org and a bit on .org - there is a time factor involved. There
is so much needing doing just now, just to get this vehicle up to speed on
the highway.

The @large I envisage is a REAL @large, a serious @large - very much along
some of Jefsey Morfin's lines, where there would be peru@large and
malaysia@large but there would also be transfers@large and deletes@large
(that's an issue that infuriates me BTW) etc etc - with groups of people
working on Working Groups on each of these...

...but not the same people... because you just can't do it... I've only been
able to spend a whole day "on the job" today because my children were out
and my wife had freed me up

So at the moment people are really engaged in the "must do" Working Groups -
like if there is no Website, or no Funding, etc then we're up the creek...
but I totally agree with you that we need to engage in these issues. I'm not
personally happy with the idea that we are a single issue org simply
involved in getting places on the Board for the @ large... because there has
to be a REAL @large to get Board seats FOR

Nevertheless, at this moment in time, a lot of people you must refer to have
contributed and are contributing a lot of time and effort to this movement,
and I can't see a lot of them being able to free up even more time to
commence those Working groups right away. But I agree with you that we
should get there.

YOU would be invaluable to this (or several other) organisations. YOU could
give so much as a co-ordinator to some of those Working groups you mention.
And others would follow, though maybe not lots all at once. I'd join
DELETES. I'd join Self-Dealing. But its 1 a.m. here in UK and I'm exhausted.
I certainly wouldn't volunteer to co-ordinate those groups.

What I'm saying is: you're making fair points. Interesting points which
point this org in the direction I think it would be good to grow. But the
identity of this group is only as great as the sum total of what its
individuals will put into it. We need to keep sight of your advice. But we
need to be understood as well.

Anyone can tell we are a group at a kind of credibility junction right now -
and that's not bad, there are some exciting choices and possibilities (and
after all, even ICANN has credibility junctions!)... other people are
watching this group wondering whether/how it will develop... these past two
weeks have involved some real steps forward in terms of structure and
resolve... but we are some months away from seeing those take effect ...
significantly... I think they will.

As members of a group like this, there is an element of faith in your vision
and aspirations. But the Berlin Wall was once like that... seemingly
insurmountable... I'm not suggesting anything dramatic and historic like
that. But there's mileage in this concept of @large users, and it's
something which can ONLY really be self-created, not imposed and organised
by ICANN, and it's something which can grow and capture the minds and
imaginations of others

Not everyone will be interested in your themes - but I am, and others are as
well. Part of our voice and our legitimacy has to derive from the authority
we can claim on issues like those. I have more to learn than to teach. The
experience of the Internet is that is almost always the case. No-one can
know it all. That's why we have networks.

Join this group, one day, Danny? Because if you have much to contribute (and
you do) there are also others of us who have much to learn and gain from
you. It's not about winning or losing in the end. It's the journey and the
people and the determination NOT to let jerks have all their way. Speaking
personally, the concept of a worldwide network of ordinary people just
excites my imagination too : I've met so many decent, interesting, funny men
and women - and so, whatever the outcome, the effort could never be wholly
wasted.

Richard

----- Original Message -----
From: <DannyYounger@cs.com>
To: <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:20 AM
Subject: [atlarge-discuss] Who are you really?


> I fail to understand why an organization that purports to represent users
is
> not setting up working groups to deal with user issues:
>
> 1.  Transfers
> 2.  Deletes
> 3.  Privacy
> 4.  Internationalized Domain Names
> 5.  Warehousing/Hoarding
> 6.  Self-dealing by registrars
> 7.  Bulk WHOIS Sales
> 8.  Artificial scarcity of TLDs in the namespace
> 9.  UDRP and other Dispute Resolution mechanisms
>
> If you're not going to deal with these issues in a timely fashion, then in
my
> view you will be even more worthless than the current Names Council... and
> why should ICANN want to deal with you if you have nothing of substance to
> contribute?
>
> Working groups to attend to housekeeping issues are fine, but let's not
> forget that the real user issues still need to be solved -- that means
> issue-based working groups (unless you want the Business Constituency and
the
> Intellectual Property Folks to solve these problems for you while you
dally
> at setting up shop).  Sadly, I don't sense any commitment of the part of
most
> on this list to actually deal with user issues.  With rare exceptions most
of
> you don't post to the GA list, nor seek appointment onto established Task
> Forces, nor otherwise display any interest in anything other than
governance
> issues.  Even those of you that are members of other constituencies rarely
if
> ever discuss actual user issues.  So, is this really a user organization,
or
> is it just a paltry clone of the Non-Commercial Constituency masquerading
as
> a body of users?
>
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