Re: [atlarge-discuss] List/website/connectivity

[espresso@e-scape.net]

Forgive me, all, but I opened another missive from Jeff Williams by mistake and feel obliged to have one more try...

At 17:59 -0700 2002/10/08, Jeff Williams wrote:
>Judyth and all stakeholders or other interested parties and members,
>
>espresso@e-scape.net wrote:
>> That's all very well, Bruce, but we are in no position to supply the developing countries, or even the poor in our own, with that technology.
>
>  Very true here.  In fact as I have been harping on for months now, this
>organization cannot even take donations legally or ethically so that we can
>pay our own way!  

Indeed you have been harping on it for months, and I can't help wondering why. Unless the purpose of an organization is to collect money for charitable use, it has no business collecting them. At the moment, we are neither a charitable organization nor any other kind of organization; we have not yet determined what we will do, let alone how and how much that effort will cost. A prospective donor could easily find better use for his money.

This group has never set out to be the provider of technology to the developing world or the poor, charitable as it would be to do so. That is not to say we needn't care whether our Web site is usable by people with less up-to-date equipment or less-than-ideal connections. The former requires pots of money; the latter, only a little consideration and forethought.

>It is deplorable that by now this has not been addressed.
>As I recall Jefsey before this forum was put up, the he promised to
>register this organization as a legal entity in France.  That as far as I >know, has yet to occur.  Why is that?  Well if I were guessing, and I am, >it is because Jefsey does not have the FUNDS to pay for such.  

Save your guesses, Jeff. We don't know what Jefsey's (or anyone's) financial state might be, and most of us don't actually care to: it's none of our business. 

There are better, more logical reasons why this group has not been registered -- namely, 
1. that we are not yet capable of registering as a collective entity since we lack a statement of purpose, signed agreement amongst us for joint proprietorship, designated founding officers, or any of the other stuff governments require for purposes of such registration;
2. that although any one of us could simply register something-or-other as "ICANNatlarge", the result would not be the organization we're trying to build but a sole proprietorship set up as the proprietor decided without reference to the rest of the membership.

>...And as a result have been
>severely criticized for doing so!  Jeeezzz!  How the hell do you or any
>member expect to get the ball rolling Judyth!!???

As our late Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau once said, "Just watch me."

>> Not even the UN or the World Bank has come anywhere near a viable plan to deploy the ICTs by 2010, let alone immediately.
>
>  Mos to the members of the UN would be lucky if they could find there way
>to the bathroom...  So that comparison, as our president has made pretty
>clear, is pointless and really not relevant...

As your president has already made clear to the world, he has zero respect for the United Nations, the rights of any nation but his own, the Constitution of the United States of America, the rule of law, or anything else which might distinguish us from our barbarian ancestors. He is also as illlogical and inarticulate as you are, Jeff: the difference is that he's notoriously the most ignorant president since Grover Cleveland (as well as being "as dumb as a box of rocks", as we say up here) but you actually have some intelligence and we only wish you'd learn to apply it better.

>  Well they can get some glasses!  >;)  Hell Judyth, INEGroup donated some
>900 hand held computers with Wi-FI capability this year alone in south east
>asia...
>
>  INEGroup has some 1800 visually handicapped members, and we don't
>have a problem in keeping them up to speed.  But of course again this takes
>$$.  

That is quite impressive. Unfortunately 900 handhelds amongst 5 billion people doesn't quite solve the problem. As for INEGroup (or us) requiring extra funds to make its Web site more accessible to the visually handicapped, you just might want to have a look at http://www.w3.org/wai for Web accessibility guidelines that cost nothing and at the excellent E-Government and Future Health bulletins at http://www.headstar.com which are formatted to make life easier for those using screen readers.

>This organization doesn't yet have any $$ to speak of yet, and doesn't
>seem to want any either.  Pardon my bluntness here, but that CRAP don't
>cut it Judyth!

It is not that no money is wanted but that one does not collect money for nothing. Charitable organizations, wherever registered, collect funds for a charitable purpose, while thus far we are talking only about advocacy against ICANN and such at some point in the future IF we get off the ground.
In case you hadn't heard, talk really IS cheap -- it costs nothing to sound off on a mailing list; what may involve some legitimate costs is still undefined so I don't believe we're in a position to ask others to pay for it!

>> It seems to me that the last thing the planet needs is yet another organization to represent the interests of the technically-inclined and the affluent, which simply dismisses the needs of the rest on the grounds that some day some of them may have what we have now. Isn't that part of what we object to in ICANN's behaviour?
>
>  Yes your right here Judyth, it is in part why we object to ICANN's
>behavior.  But only in part...  There are many other reasons as well
>even from the more affluent.

No doubt. The next question is "Exactly what do we want to do about it, and what will it cost to implement that action?" With a statement of purpose, 1000+ members can surely come up with a viable plan and a suitable structure, at which point funding agencies and private donors just might be interested.

Another message will follow soon with suggestions as to what type of organization this might be if I ruled the world and could have whatever I liked.

Regards,

Judyth

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Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
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"A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
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