[atlarge-discuss] Re: 3:127 EU

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com>]

Judyth, Jim and all,

espresso@e-scape.net wrote:

> At 12:38 -0600 2002/11/08, Jim Fleming wrote:
> >http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg10/publications/brochures/docu/10lecons/txt_en.html
> >"Until it crystallised into a political concept and became the long-term goal of the Memberof the European Community, the European
> >ideal was unknown to all but philosophers and visionaries. The notion of a United States of Europe was part of a humanist-pacifist
> >dream which was shattered by the conflicts which brought so much destruction to the European continent in the first half of this
> >century."
> >
> >...others may prefer .EU...
>
> Sometimes I share Danny's frustration, Jim. It's taking far too much of my time to try to read between the lines and figure out what you're really trying to tell us.

  Keep trying and you'll get it.  It is clear as a high quality crystal to me.
I agree that Jims propensity for speaking in metaphors is difficult for some,
and perhaps a more direct style would be more appropriate.  None
the less if he used such a style someone would also complain about
that as well....

>
>
> This thread has been a little easier than usual so I'll give you some quick reactions.
>
> 1. Yes, that "humanist-pacifist dream" is dear to many people. We like to think it just possible that the world may choose to move towards more civilization rather than less, and find better ways to settle its disputes than by bombing others "back to the Stone Age".

  A little over simplistic here Judyth.  None the less your point is still well taken.
However realism is the norm, and has been for centuries, as Jim rightly
indicated.  Therefore never give up your dreams, but be settled in
the reality of the world and deal with that reality on it's own terms.

>
>
> 2. No, the present EU is not quite that ambitious: all it seeks to do is level the economic playing-field and enhance co-operation amongst as many European countries as demonstrate a willingness to participate. Ideally, though it won't prevent disputes between countries, it will provide some better means for settling them.

  It MAY provide better means of settling some disputes.  However given
Europe history to date, that is unlikely in many respects.  However leveling
the playing field is paramount, on this we agree.  The world is too small a place
for just a US non-profit corp. to be regulating a global resource unilaterally.

>
>
> 3. No, it shouldn't be necessary for everyone who owns a European domain name to re-register. Surely that change could be done by the registrars on a given date with a little advance planning.

  I could be done with a little planning to be sure.  There real questions are
whom does this planing and what is the criterion by which that planning
can be imparted.  ICANN clearly does not have or has not shown
to have the answer.

>
>
> 4. No, most people wouldn't care if their domains went from XYZ.fr to XYZ.fr.eu or XYZ.fr.int as long as people could still visit the sites without problems.

  I think this is stretching it a bit.  To do so represents a great inconvenience
not to mention a host of legal problems for those Domain Name holders.
Inconvenience has a cost in terms of political capital as well as financial.
Both will no doubt be high if such occurs as a matter of policy.

> This sort of thing is merely a minor nuisance, like having  one's street renamed. You just print new letterhead and get on with life.

  Again a bit over simplistic here.  Such comparisons of street names to
Domain Names hardly are valid.

>
>
> Finally, though some people are capable of obsessing forever about the perfect company name or domain name, most people have other things on their minds. Few Internet users give a damn what extensions are used or what technology underlies the stuff they do with their browsers and e-mail clients.

  This is very true up to the point of when what they don't understand ends up
biting them on the ass or impairing their desire or ability to do something.
Than it matters allot!

> If all the newspapers reported that as of tomorrow one had to type ".BLA" instead of ".COM" in URLs, we'd all curse, edit our "bookmark" files accordingly, and carry on.

  If we had not other choice, yes we would do as you suggest.  However
as we do have a choice, perhaps some still would do as you suggest,
many might not.  And this is at the crux of Jims point really.  The free
market system works when there are a number of choices.  When there
is not, the free market system does not works so well or begins to
erode until choice is again reintroduced.

>
>
> Your idea of "best of breed" extensions seems more about your political philosophy than anything to do with either real-world Internet use or the technical underpinnings of the Internet. Your ideas that "Internet governance" can be achieved purely by commercial competition and that democracy is based on the assignment of arbitrary numbers in an IP protocol strike me as somewhat naive.

  Hummm?  I don't gather where you came up with the idea, Judyth, from
Jim's postings that he suggests in any way that "Internet governance"
can be achieved purely by commercial competition and that democracy is based on the assignment of arbitrary numbers in an IP protocol"...  Perhaps you could elaborate
on how you came to such a conclusion?

> And, last but not least, though I was eager to learn from you about the technical side of the system, I'm not capable of learning it from the way you prefer to teach.

  This is indeed a problem for some.  The old saying that "if the student
hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught", would apply here..  Hence
I would suggest that you or anyone for that matter seek to self learn from
some of the subject matter that is available..  Of it not wishing to, than
of course the option ot remain ignorant is also a possibility.

>
>
> I will stick around awhile longer in the hopes that something interesting will develop from this group but that hope is fading fast.

  Hope is the mother of all men...  Never give up hope...

>
>
> Regards,
>
> Judyth
>
> ##########################################################
> Judyth Mermelstein     "cogito ergo lego ergo cogito..."
> Montreal, QC           <espresso@e-scape.net>
> ##########################################################
> "A word to the wise is sufficient. For others, use more."
> ##########################################################

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup - (Over 127k members/stakeholders strong!)
CEO/DIR. Internet Network Eng/SR. Java/CORBA Development Eng.
Information Network Eng. Group. INEG. INC.
E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com
Contact Number: 214-244-4827 or 972-244-3801
Address: 5 East Kirkwood Blvd. Grapevine Texas 75208



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