Re: [atlarge-discuss] Fw: Resignation

["Richard Henderson" <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>]

Hello Norbert

I have interspaced some *****RH: responses***** below, and thank you for
your comments.

----- Original Message -----
From: Norbert Klein <nhklein@gmx.net>
To: Richard Henderson <richardhenderson@ntlworld.com>
Cc: <sherwood@islands.vi>; <atlarge-discuss@lists.fitug.de>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [atlarge-discuss] Fw: Resignation


> > Excellent! I entirely agree with Ron's analysis. This is exactly how I
see
> > it. I am happy to envisage two approaches, and I am happy to keep a foot
> > in
> > both camps, but I personally think that many of our membership want to
> > remain clearly independent of ICANN, to create some clear space from it,
>
> Yes, I see this - but I have not yet understood what then is the goal,
apart
> from not being related to ICANN.

*****RH: Norbert, I can't speak clearly for others without some process of
balloting their opinion on a number of questions. However the goals I would
like to see pursued include:
1. Creating a worldwide network of internet users who can campaign for
democratic control of the net, both from the platform of a global
organisation and from its regional/national/local/issue-based associated
groups. This network to be "in opposition" to ICANN and separate from it.
ICANN should be expelled from our processes.
2. The creation of an 'umbrella' (other than the ICANN Ralo's) where a
coalition of user groups can network and develop a voice on a range of
issues related to DNS administration and policy, DNS future shape,
democratic structures (bottom-up), and issues of internet freedom... many
many more issues. Not all groups in the coalition would prioritise the same
issues, but they would agree on enough to want to support such a coalition,
drawn together under an independent umbrella.
3. The growth and development of a democratic internet users movement wholly
independent and free of ICANN, and creating its own structures and
initiatives. This independent users group would, of course, be one of a
multiplicity of similar groups in coalition/alliance. I forsee the emergence
of exciting new bottom-up democratic processes and movements, built around
the technology, which may circumvent some of the inertia, spin and duplicity
of "old-fashioned" democratic systems which claim to speak for the people,
but where power is often out of the reach of the people.
4. A specific and significant goal (among others) would be that the Internet
(which exists and is supported by millions of ordinary people) would
ultimately be controlled by these people themselves, through the development
of democratic processes, and the administration of the roots and DNS would
one day pass from "the few" to "the many". There is NOTHING in ICANN's
conduct to suggest that their goals and their structures are designed to
achieve that.*****

>
> > and
> > I think (as Wolfgang has suggested in his own analysis) that it's time
to
> > ballot the entire membership on a range of questions. However, to avoid
> > "rigged" questions, I think advocates of an ICANN-RALO based org
>
> There is this position, yes - but that is not what I saw as the goal of
the
> At-Large effort from the beginning: then it was to have an opinion and a
goal
> how we would like to see ICANN moving - in spite of how the present board
> majority sees their goals.

*****RH: I admit this is a very fair point, Norbert. And I see no reason why
you and others like yourselves should not continue to follow your own goals
and convictions. I think it is indeed true that quite a lot of people
perceived the organisation this way. However, I believe that a lot of other
people take a more radical line. Both views deserve respect. Both views can
be pursued. Whether they are both pursued through ONE organisation or
through TWO, I really don't know. I think that the membership should define
this for themselves.*****
>
> > and I
> > think advocates of an independent At Large mobilising and organising
> > outside
> > ICANN's structures should phrase THEIR proposals in a form members can
> > vote
> > yes or no to.
>
> I am really looking forward to see the goal advocated here spelled out
more
> clearly, beyond "being outside" of ICANN.

*****RH: Please see above, but also please refer to many statements I have
posted on these lists, and also read statements from other members too. The
ones listed above are SOME goals, but not an exclusive list.*****
>
> > Let people choose what orgs they want to support...
>
> No problem with that - but having started the first connection from
Cambodia
> in 1994 and always being dependent - in some aspects of our operation of
the
> Cambodian NGO Open Forum on the structures of ICANN - I was hoping that
> there would be a stronger At-Large, deeply concerned for our information
> infrastructure (which is much more than hardware), and therefore I was
always hoping
> for an At-Large that is targeting its energy on ICANN becoming clearly a
> service agency for the Internet and its many users.

*****RH: A reasonable point... you need to work within ICANN's processes and
therefore you want to maintain and try to develop the At Large voice within
those processes. I don't doubt the integrity of that goal. I DO doubt its
ultimate success, and therefore I believe in developing an alternative
strategy outside ICANN to ultimately outflank it, with its own identity and
the development of its own worldwide structures, democratic processes (let's
not forget how anti-democratic ICANN has proved to be), and its own voice
for the At Large (not overseen and manouevred by Denise Michel but wholly
outside all those shenanigans).

So I think YOU should pursue YOUR goal as you see fit, and others can pursue
THEIR goal as THEY see fit. If you succeed inside ICANN, well great! I do
not believe that will happen, sadly. So maybe the REAL "At Large" as I see
it - a wholly independent At Large, self-administered in a worldwide
democratic structure, not as ICANN defines and dictates - will achieve its
goals in the course of time, as roots multiply, as ICANN loses its grip and
control, as democratic processes are seen to be the sane way forward for
everyone's internet.*****
>
> Norbert
>
> --
> Norbert Klein
> Open Forum of Cambodia
> Phnom Penh/Cambodia
>
>
*****RH: Once again, thank you Norbert for your fair and relevant
comments.*****



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